Another fantastic app, but fp1 users have again been forgotten....
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Another fantastic app, but fp1 users have again been forgotten....
Yeah, this is not a smart thing to do with current users. Just like they did for share online. Why? To whom will it do good?
When you are dealing with pushing-the-limits kind of innovation (like we do here at Beta Labs), there are quite often technical limitations in underlying platforms. I'm not sure about the details this case - maybe Pekka can comment?
The development teams are creating beta software in order to test out ideas for future phones. As Betalabs users we have the chance to try out and use this development software on existing phones helping them prove the ideas and goving us new apps to play with. In this way it's a win/win situation.
As they are designing for the future Operating Systems and technologies the teams are not being paid to reverse engineer for older Operating Systems and technologies. This means that inevitably older operating systems like mine (S60 FP3.1) will gradually have less and less new beta sofwtare available on betalabs. This is nothin personal, but basic progress. For technology development you need to focus on the future and not the past. At the end of the day S60 FP3.2 is getting older now with the release of the newer phones.
Looks like I may have to upgrade soon to keep testing new betalabs sofwtare. Just waiting for a new Nokia that with surpass my trusty N95 8Gb.
@tommivilkamo: appolgies for any duplications. I was posting at the same time. Just got a bit carried away, so took longer to post.
mbrett
N95 8Gb (Product Code: 0558787 (UK)) FW 31.0.018
I completely agree with mbretts comment. It's not an issue for betalabs since we are dealing with experimental software. However many users here are quite fond of their N95's and in my opinion Nokia is yet to release a proper replacement, so I still think supporting N95 is recommended where possible.
completely agree with people here, there's no replacement for the n95, so, please, try to givw us some innovation too :)
The closest N95 Replacement at present is the N86.
I had hoped for the N97 until Nokia released a more detailed spec and the camera turned out to be 3MP. I'm trying to hold out for a touch replacement for the N95.
mbrett
N95 8Gb (Product Code: 0558787 (UK)) FW 31.0.018
Awesome software, but not working on my E66 FP1. I'm feeling just a bit forgoten..
E66
You guys should keep in mind that every feature pack update brings along with it under the hood upgrades and additions to the OS. It is on these new features that the betas are based on. How can the betas making use of the new features work on OSs which do not have those features.
I know the feeling, i was a Symbian 9.1 user (n73 and e65) till last october. But there was nothing which the betalabs could do.
C'mon, the hardware is practically the same! What pushing-the-limits?! What are you talking about. All they invented in new phones is the keypad lock, fm transmiter and dual led. What technology improvements. The N95 and N82 could have fp2 if nokia would relese it in new firmware. They are all in essence same phones. It's just nokia's dum politics, nothing else so they would sell new phones. But why would someone buy a new phone if it gives so little improvements and giving and extra 50-100e if he could buy older models, that are still great. For here and now? For share online 4.3? Be serious!
I think the bulk of Nokia users more than likely still use fp1 devices. and I'm sure N95/8gb users make up a serious amount of the nokia ownership. I understand the platform is aging but it's hardly obsolete....
PS mbrett just checked the specs for the N97 GSM arena still lists it as having the standard 5mp camera, hopefully thats true!
I checked the N97 spec as soon at was first released or leaked, whichever it was. Maybe there was a typo at that point as this is the main point that put me off it. My hopes and dreams have been re-iginted. Thanks craigio.
@milan21884 - working in the electronics industry myself I am fully aware that components can become obsolete and be replaced during the development cycle of a new device, say like a phone, so your statement " the hardware is practically the same!" obviously shows a lack of knowledge.
Better to keep quite and let peolpe think you lack knowledge than open your mouth and remove all doubt.
mbrett
N95 8Gb (Product Code: 0558787 (UK)) FW 31.0.018
Would people stop crying?
The 5800 and other S60v5 devices aren't supported yet either.
Damn. If you want the latest innovation, BUY the latest innovation.
The N95 is over 2 years old now. Get over yourselves.
{All thoughts & opinions expressed above are my own, and not of any other organization}
I didn't say it the same, but there aren't that drastic to say that the old os won't support new software. That's what a lot of people think. Now days, it's not enough just to have a new hardware, but also to have a good support of services. If they continue like this more and more Samsung will take the lead in market, they already have good hardware and great built in quality. In a couple of years they will have a software to match that hardware. I fear that nokia has already started to loose the battle. N82 is my first nokia phone and i'm must say that it will probably be the last, just because of the way nokia are doing things. I'm glad for you that you work in the electronics industry but that doesn't give you the right to say that somone is stupid and should better to keep quite. You need to look the other aspects of the product as well, or it will not sell
Nice to have another one understanding the principal of innovation and progress.
@milan21884 Maybe you need to re-read my post. At no point did I say you were stupid. All I said was that I beleived you had a lack of knowledge of the electronics industry to back up your opinion. In no way does this infer stupidity.
All people have a lack of knowlegde somewhere countered by an excess of knowledge somewhere else.
mbrett
N95 8Gb (Product Code: 0558787 (UK)) FW 31.0.018
You say patato, i say patatoe. It's a simple app, not even a app, it's a bookmark, really don't know what inovation your talking about?
the bottom line here is, whether you like it or not, there's still a huge number of n95 users, and they're not giving up on their mobiles for fp2 ones for a number of reasons. The n95 may be old in Europe already, but it's quite new in America (and in North America, too). The NAM versions of the n95 are, in fact, an evolution of the european original :)
So, in short, I think nokia should keep the n95 as a current target for some more time.
To be or not to be the same hardware? I'm not into electronics. but I've been comparing device specs, and to me, the n95 still looks like much more powerful hardware than most fp2 devices... just a thought, though.
Nice to see that there is such an active discussion on our application immediatelly after releasing it here. I try to follow it and comment whenever I can.
About the supported platforms: As an active N95 user I also was not that happy that we had to restrict the backwards compatibility, but it had to be done.
There were some technical reasons i.e. something we used only existed in fp 2 and beyond, but the main reason was that Here and now was really developed with integration in mind. In other words we wanted to get it into the new phones out-of-the box.
With our limited resources (honestly, there are not so many of us working on this) we had to concentrate on certain platforms only and for us it made more sense to select the new and upcoming ones. The testing effort alone would have been considerably larger should we have tried to support 3.x for example.
I am sorry that we could not support more platforms in this release. I still hope that we'll get useful feedback that will help us in making Here and now even better. So thanks for the good work so far and please keep commenting.
Pekka Rissanen
Product Manager, Here and Now
To those who are asking why N95 and N82 cannot support FP2, the probable reason is licensing costs. Although i don't have the exact info, but in one of the symbian foundation posts, they mentioned that there will not be licensing costs or something. So one of the reasons why the existing phones do not receive feature pack upgrades is because then Nokia would have had to pay for the new OS for every phone again.
Didn't Nokia buy up Symbian? After paying all that money they still need to get stingy on upgrades due to having to pay for licences?
I would like to see E71 support but I understand that is not how beta testing works.
More than that, I feel tiny but growing concern that the handset I bought only 6 months ago might become obsolete sooner than I expected.
That's just the nokia way.
Thanks for the response. Respect for sticking your head above the wall to respond to this discussion.
In another post you inferred that an S60 FP3.1 port may be possible in the future if enough interest is shown from the S60 FP3.1 users.
Is it worth creating a thread for S60 FP3.1 users to add their names to show there support for a port.
This cold also be done for 5800 support.
Maybe there could be a quick survey could be done on the betalabs site to see what the percentages are of the different Operating Systems used by Betalabs users. Not that this should stear project devdevelopment as this should be controlled by future product development and not past products, but it would be interesting to see the results.
Regards
mbrett
N95 8Gb (Product Code: 0558787 (UK)) FW 31.0.018
come on....what about us e90 users and e71 users. all these sub-type phones in comparison and the heavy users cant even use the new products.
please start supporting the fp1 devices....communicator is not dead!
Bravo for making the initiative to educate beta lab users.
Its up surd where this thread has led.
Besides what has been said in the thread already, hardware means nothing anymore.
The symbian module used in feature pack 2 devices is OS 9.3 not 9.x as previous devices.
Just this simple knowledge will maybe help others to think twice before speaking.
In addition there is a reason why its called "Feature Pack 2" Not 1.
Im not goin to even bother going into more details for this but leave one advice, this is a beta testing site for future applications & services for upcoming devices. If this does not agree with you, then i say you are in the wrong place looking for something else. Live with it.
P.S Feature Pack 2 devices are not dead they will be around till end of 2010.
More & more are coming out.
The licensing problems will not be there for the Symbian OS, so we might see Windows Mobile like OS upgrades for the phones.
alsi this is correct for symbian OS 9.4 and on. Not to sure about the s60 over layer. In whatever case we will not c this till symbian foundation or possibly on the n97.
All,
there is no need to start disqualifying each other - We fp1 users have shown enough interest in this particular piece of software, so at least Nokia knows what we want.
Whether this will be possible or not, that's something whose answer will come *only* from Nokia. Whether some people's intentions may be the best, there is no need to call people names or showing off your resum
i can see where @milan21884 is comming from because Nokia have been saying that the N96 is their flagship device even though it is a downgrade in hardware Less powerful cpu and smaller battery pack and that the N96 is supported it seems to be that the N95 - 8gb could run FP2. also the software here and now does not load on the N96 anyway
How hard is it to understand that on announcement this project was announced to be integrated into future products, hence fp2 devices.
I understand where fp1 users come from, but this is the nature of things.
Wow... I did not imagine that our tiny application could ignite such a lively discussion, but it's very nice to see so many active users here. Thanks for the feedback so far and please keep it coming.
About the S60 3.1 support: As I stated there were business related and pure technical reasons to drop it, but I cannot remember the technical details anymore. There has been so much happening since then that my internal drive simply cannot cope with all that stuff;-)
Let's do the following: I'll put a task into the next development sprint to find out the exact technical details and to roughly estimate the effort needed for a backport. After that I'll discuss the current facts with the business owner and we'll see whether this could be reconsidered. No promises yet, but let's get to the bottom of this. Sounds like a plan?
Pekka Rissanen
Product Manager, Here and now
Thanks for your support.
mbrett
N95 8Gb (Product Code: 0558787 (UK)) FW 31.0.018
Thanks for the support LNoormohamed. How hard is it for you snowy and others to figure out that pretty soon they will stop the suppor for fp1 eventhough it's far from outdated and unuseable for the new apps!? Thaks redreku for trying.
whatever pays the bill i say
Need feature back 1 Support! Please.
thanks redreku
I think the lively discussion shows the amount of fp1 users out there who I still maintain are the majority. N95 etc users also tend to be tinkerers and active in the beta community so any support for us would be grateful
Craigio
N95 8Gb
Completely understand the reasons for dropping support for FP1, but as I have just started using the potential of the N95 with Sports Tracker (I'm always behind the times, I would still be using my 5110 if it was up to me :) ) I would like to add my name to the "Don't Drop Support for FP1 Yet list.
Maybe, you could get the YTS lad to do it instead of sending him to brew the tea all the time :)
But, he needs to keep the team fuly hydrated in order to keep them working to their full potential. Just think of the development time lost if they unlocked the development team memebers shackles from the desks.
I suppose you may have a point though. If they have him working on this he won't be able to keep the dev. team as hydrated, which will reduce their toilet brakes. Maybe you do have a very good idea here.
mbrett
N95 8Gb (Product Code: 0558787 (UK)) FW 31.0.018
I would personally pay for a software upgrade to the 95 or 82, that would bring it up to FP2. I understand that these 2 phones are not the future for the company but the software is.
If they can devote some resources to upgrading FP1 software to FP2 in a profit generating manner than Nokia will win first by making money off users paying for software upgrades and secondly by expanding the number of beta testers, they will get better feedback to make these apps great and be able to compete with other handsets and software platforms.
I'm not looking for a free ride or my phone purchase to also grant me never ending updates to keep current 2 years after the launch of the phone but I do think you should be able to pay a fee to get the best of what Nokia offers.
Obviously this is easier said than done because it involves technical issues that I am not well versed in but that shouldn't be a deterrent strong enough to block the path of upgrading FP1 phones.
Hopefully Nokia will soon start using its acquisition of companies like NavTeq, Trolltech, Plazes, Symbian and Twango to provide the best software available to its costumers. Perhaps when the Ovi Store opens we will have access to lots of great applications and improvments in software.
Hello everyone,
'Excuse me for quoting myself on another post (sorry I did not want to write the same thing all over again just in slightly different words;-)
We currently making a technical study on this and so far it looks kind of promising. There are a couple of issues to crack, but nothing impossible has turned up yet.
One of the major issues is the Internet connection handling on S60 3.1, as in S60 3.2 we are detecting and connecting to the same destination group that the Browser uses. This is not supported in S60 3.1, so the result would be annoying connection dialogues popping up => this is something we wanted to avoid in the first place in order to make the application work as seamlessly with the Browser as possible.
I am not sure yet whether we could go around this restriction in a nice manner. I know that in the Browser you can set the default access point, but adding such a setting for the Beta Labs version probably is not an option for us at this point (localization etc).
Let's put it to a vote: Would you be able to live with a thing that asks for the connection every time?
That is still no promise, as in any case I have to get the business approval as well. Expect to have the final resolution in a couple of weeks.
Pekka Rissanen
Product Manager, Here and now
Yes. A lot of people like this anyway so they can decide.
It would be nice not to have to accept every time, but at least this means we can try out hte app. As long as people don't then start complaining about the issue as a bug.
mbrett
N95 8Gb (Product Code: 0558787 (UK)) FW 31.0.018
me too, for my E71, please.
..yes yes.
E71
Count me in. :)
N82 v31
Yes
Thanks to your active feedback we could do it. Please dowload the S60 3.1 version and tell us how it works for you. All comments are valuable for us.
By the way, the connection handling now works similarly to S60 3.2 i.e. it detects the connection browser is using and tries to use the same.
Pekka Rissanen
Product Manager, Here and now
I really like the app, just don't know why you added the icon for app cause it goes to bookmarks to open the app. Would be nicer if you just placed a note at the end of installation saying to start the service go to bookmarks or something similar.
On my N95 8Gb the app opens straight into Here and Now, no problems and closes fine the only time I see the bookmarks screen is If I choose to go to it in the browser.
Maybe my phone is special, or I'm missunderstanding.
mbrett
N95 8Gb (Product Code: 0558787 (UK)) FW 31.0.018