Menus and buttons are missing!

Discussion for Nokia Photo Browser

02-04-2009 14:03

We've received several comments on the option menu and exit button, so far.Yes, you are right; they are missing.In this release, it was actually our design challenge not to use any menus or buttons.We've tried to naturally integrate everything into the touch gestures.The menus / buttons ask for an attention, interpretation, and decision.This means a distraction while all you want is to enjoy going through your photos.So we decided to experiment what happens if we get rid of them from the screen.We thought it will offer the better "fun" and "pleasure" out of viewing photos.How did you find our design approach working?We're interested to learn your feeling!

Comments

Submitted by Talyn7 on 02-04-2009 16:06.

Personally i think the design is wonderfully simple and does the job you set out. i think what you will find is that this interpretation of the gallery as it is such a step forward that everyone will want it to replace the gallery as we have it, and why not?
The application has a very large scope and is probably the best photo browser i have seen on a mobile.
I suppose there are ways to keep the application simple yet give it a far more features. you could keep to using gestures for extra features. ie after tapping into a picture you could scribe an 'S' over the picture and it could bring up a sent menu, 'A' to bring up albums etc.
That or in any given view you could pull the picture up or down to reveal a full menu.

Submitted by SimoSalminen on 02-04-2009 17:43.

I'm a bit old, close to 40 :) and need menus on mobile apps. I'm afraid many others need them but I applaud you not to give them on the first go. Could you make menus appear on some cue, like scribling M on screen on touch devices and some key on non-touch devices. Better yet, on touch devices no menu appears but a overlay like in web browser for options or in our camera apps.

You could show this overlay menu for one second 10 first times app is started and make it disappear so that it somehow gives clues to users how to bring it back if absolutely needed.

Submitted by Kozzi on 02-04-2009 19:00.

Please no Drawn gestures, you use the application with your thumb (well at least I do), requiring user to remember and draw them to use the application isn't innovative at all. Buttons aren't bad, the thing is how do you display them on the touchscreen. Please reconsider about buttonless interface, simple gestures like dragging up/down and sideways can be used but drawing something is not an option for a mobile-screen. When you select a picture in the grid mode, the picture can perhaps become a bit bigger with one or two buttons in the corner, i.e Send which has options like MMS, email or Web database.
Pictures are mostly 4:3 so some screen estate will be left unused in the selection view. I really hope there is someway to put them into good use when said photos are selected, like to display information, edit-tools or something.

PS. please atleast one button for EXIT, I hate to reach to red-button for this.

Submitted by nkaneko on 03-04-2009 14:24.

Thanks, guys. We'll keep monitoring the comments in this thread. I've so far heard cueing a menu by drawing an alphabet or just long-press.

Kozzi, I'm happy to hear you're browsing with your thumb. That's one thing we've tried to implement nicely.

Submitted by zfarooq on 03-04-2009 18:03.

HI!

I love the application...very, very, VERY good start (hopefully a full touch optimized internet browser is next ;) ! )

Ok, I think for this application EVERYTHING should be gestures of some sort (no clunky menu). So:
(1) If you want to rotate picture double tap or hold down the extreme corner of the picture, and rotate finger left or right to rotate in the direction you wish to turn the picture. Course, this is only on the corners, anywhere else the picture will magnify/zoom in.
(2) I personally think the zoom level is fine on this...
(3) For the menu where you want to send via mms, email, rename, etc, there should be a sliding gesture, for e.g. if in landscape, a swipe from the bottom of the screen to up, should slide the menu up...chose options, and then swipe down and its gone. I think this menu should only be needed for sending stuf..not much with picture manupilation.

Besides this I think you guys just need to improve the fluidity of the whole program..where when you swipe and it scrolls, when it hits the ends it should be more fluid. Plus, the white outline around the pictures doesnt look too great imho, and the gray boxes should be some other appealing color while we wait for them to load!

Oh and lastly, when you start the application it should be filling up the whole screen! Thats it, I really think the menu with a upward sliding gesture would be amazing to see!

Good job guys!

Submitted by snowy on 10-04-2009 13:11.

KUDOS to @nkaneko for creating this discussion, this is the initiative i like from the dev team!

May you please add the to the title discussion "gesture" for more buzz and direct talk under one thread.
So far their are topics spread around but if you wrap it around it goes under; gesture, menu, transfer, editing.
I have many gesture suggestions but for the different topics so it kinda goes of board.

Anyway, AWESOME design choice!

-First to stick to the basic(basic i mean what has been started with out adding more but change and improvement to the original design)
While holding on an image to read the image title is poor, so lets forget about it and change it.
Keep the hold gesture and now add the image title feature used on nokia photos on PC to keep things coherent. You know the that flips the picture backward transition, where the info is displayed while the picture still displays in the background.
*If further edit feature was added in the case of the N97 this is a huge bonus by using the QWERTY to type and edit while the image real estate remains, unfortunate the same does not go for the 5800.

-Too bad for the lack of multi-touch for the moment great potential there.

-For sending i agree with @zfarooq (i also made a similar post) using a swipe gesture but not the android UI method as suggested. Im speaking about a direct swipe gesture. Using the built in sensor gesture is also an alternative.

Long Press for the Menu seems to be the best suggestion so far but i recommend it with the use of an overlay transition. Do not want to ruin the viewing experience.

UPDATE: Would it be possible to use the 5800 XpressMusic Media key???
I have a feeling the answer would be no, but if was plausible that would open up some cool uses, even an answer to the menu ;)
Does it use one press and hold feature?

Submitted by snowy on 13-04-2009 07:25.

-Use of the proximity sensor as seen in this example http://www.symbian-freak.com/downloads/freeware/cat_s60_5th/descriptions...
Sorry but its the best reference i have.
I just tried this game out, an was shocked by how the proximity sensor was used as a form of interaction.

-Use of the front camera as seen here http://www.aikonlab.com/spip.php?article16
I highly suggest this one by samir. Using a camera for a photo app is the ultimate of coolness.
Besides Samir has been the innovator on motion control(gesture) for the s60 platform.

P.S I am not affiliated to neither of these projects.

Submitted by snowy on 21-04-2009 06:15.

any reply?
P.S create sticky

Submitted by nkaneko on 22-04-2009 12:16.

Thanks for your interest on the topic.
Here is how it is progressing.

After some discussion, we've decided to put a menu that pops out with some cue like a long press.
It is still our belief we shouldn't let buttons and unnecessary indicators sit on the screen.
But we concluded some kind of menu is needed to accomodate the functions we'd like to implement.

More advanced touch gesture has been considered and tried a bit.
But the biggest problem is educating our users what gesture does what.
Also, we doubt that we can today achieve the accuracy enough to create no disturbing errors.

Using other sensors has been considered -- we've seen demos of these technologies.
We decided not to go further as we found no advantage of waving a hand while the touch screen is there.
And again, not enough accuracy and response will likely create disturbance.

Submitted by snowy on 23-04-2009 00:46.

Thank you for the quick reply,
I understand from where you come from and agree.

Are you considering using the similarities used in nokia photos for pc? Very interested to hear your taughts. Ive reinstalled the app to test around myself.

Yes i would like to hear your comment on the use of the 5800 media tab as the options menu tab.

In the case of my n85 i converted my media tab to open nokia messaging with one tap an holding it still brings the media. It was done using a system hidden menu feature.

This would be a great tool and advantage to the 5800 and NPB. Allowing a options menu with out disturbing the projects intention. One tap brings the options menu or hold to bring the menu bar. Now thinking of it will easy access to select photo an send via share onlile ;)

Submitted by wikid24 on 24-04-2009 22:12.

Thanks nkaneno for creating a very good, direct way for the development team to interact with the beta community proactively, on very specific points! I would love to see more threads like this in the future!

I gotta say that I'm thoroughly impressed with the interface on my e71, including its minimalistic approach for the application, to keep it clean and simple... one thing that is missing, and has been mentioned many times in other threads is a 'loading' icon, to determine whether images are rendering in two places: the 'main' screen or the 'image' screen.

Two reasons why these have been requested: Users want to know that the application is actually 'doing something' and isn't frozen, and to know if an image has been rendered 100% or not.

Submitted by nkaneko on 27-04-2009 12:20.

Hi,

Snowy, is Nokia Photos on PC using image similarity based sorting? I couldn't find that function.
Anyway, we've done some discussions before, and it can be a good feature.
You might have 2000 images on the phone and you don't view most of them anymore.
Now they are rediscovered in relation to other similar-looking images with a fresh suprise and excitement.
The idea is there but we just haven't been able to make any commitment

Wikid24, thanks for your input. I agree, as we do have that kind of indicator in our R&D version.
We were just thinking we shouldn't be showing any message that is not obvious for average users.
Animation would have sent obvious message but that eats the CPU time and slows down the thumbnail generation.
Let us still think how this feed back should be provided.

Submitted by snowy on 27-04-2009 20:26.

nkaneko, i think you may have misunderstood me, but you raise an interesting perspective in the case of having images passing 1000 (im not one of them) and how to reinsert these images to users viewing pleasure(surprise). Sorry i can not offer much in this department at the moment. I'll take a look around and think something up.

My reference to nokia photos on PC is about image selecting/title/edit.

-So select image, to the bottom right is a tab. It will turn the image around( no need for NPB) providing a cool transition effect. Image left in the background where the title/edit is provided on the foreground.
-Ive spoke of this in the past to be used. Screen real estate will remain, providing consistency with nokia's software/service having users used to layout.
-In the case of using the left soft key is stale and ugly. This effect may be used on fp2 and 5800 which i understand not possible for fp1.
-So lets say just touch, hold image, transition will arise showing title, description, tag, and providing the option selection.
Same goes for fp2 by selecting left soft key.
-This also goes along the lines of share online when details are shown for image. A foreground is displayed with all data information.

P.S i know i have asked this question many time, sorry for being a pain, but im very interested to know if the 5800 menu bar/media key can be manipulated? lol

Submitted by snowy on 07-05-2009 20:59.

Submitted by nkaneko on 11-05-2009 09:29.

I see, I've read your sentense wrong. We aren't really trying to create that similarity though we did have looked at its design as we discussed how it should look like. The trial implementation is on-going. Hopefully in the near future release, we can experiment it.

We have avoided using the product specific features like media button. I agree that will solve some design problems for NPB. But at the same time, this button is a product wide feature so that we shouldn't break the consistency.

Submitted by milan21884 on 14-05-2009 17:28.

Give an option so users can choose wheter they want to start the app with the gallery button or not.