OVI Maps on my new N97:Iinitial Review

Review for Ovi Maps 3.0 Beta for mobile

29-06-2009 08:28

Love the look and feel of OVI Maps 3 on my new N97, but have noticed the following issues which let it down a little:

1) To use the compass I have to slide out the keyboard. Even if I slide out the keyboard to set up the compass, as soon as I slide it back in I loose the compass again. What's that about?

2) City Explorer licence does not exist on my N97. It did and I had it on my N95 8Gb. There is only an option in the Maps Store to purchase drive and traffic licence (both of which I already own).

3) The traffic camera issue (lack of them) continues on the N97. At least on the N95 8Gb I maanged to get the traffic cameras to show in the end after deleting the qf file fomr the mass drive and the cities folders from both the phone drive and mass drive. The same delete process did not work on my N97. Any chance of this being sorted?

4) A road near me which has always had a 40mph shows as 60mph on my N97 and 40mph on my N95 8Gb. What's this about?
(I will say that the last time I installed the map data on my N95 8Gb was two weeks ago and the map data on my N97 was installed yesterday ago, but I did not know of any planned/expecte changes.)

Otherwise it looks and feels great at the moment.

Great job guys. Any chance of sorting out these issues. Some are more important than others.

mbrett
N97 RM-505 FW 10.0.012 (Vodafone UK)
N95 8Gb (Product Code: 0558787 (UK)) FW 31.0.015

Comments

Submitted by snowy on 29-06-2009 14:19.

congrats brother.
How do you find the gps lock.
I find it has been terrible for me. To many drops.

Submitted by mbrett on 29-06-2009 15:21.

@Snowy: Initial GPS lock is much improved and I haven't lost GPS on a trip yet, but there again I've only done one trip with maps on and that was down major roads.

Nokia Email is killing me at the moment though. No mails make it to my phone from my POP accounts or my hotmail. Only Yahoo Mail and OVI make it through. I can receive my POP accounts via the default messaging app though.

mbrett
N97 RM-505 FW 10.0.012 (Vodafone UK)
N95 8Gb (Product Code: 0558787 (UK)) FW 31.0.015

Submitted by snowy on 30-06-2009 11:36.

thx

Submitted by ish68 on 01-07-2009 10:58.

Glad you got your N97, but I had heard a lot of odd rumours, so am waiting a while instead of upgrading straight away.

I will be watching your comments about OMM3 on the N97 and if/when I get one, I'll know whether to install OMM3 onto it.

I'm just about to delete the qf & cities folders on my N95 8Gb, as OMM3 is freezing, incorrect routes, crashing and lots more. It's only been on around 2 weeks and it seems to be creating it's own error. The more you use it the more problems it gives (previous beta did'nt do this). I really hope the N97 version solve these problems.

Ish68
UK Vodafone - N95 8Gb - Code: 0557135 - FW(31.0.015)

Submitted by mbrett on 01-07-2009 11:05.

@ish68 Am loving the N97 other than the fact taht the c:drive on the N97 is only 73MB compared to 133MB on the N95 8Gb.

Means that old "insufficient memory" fault could be more of an issue on the N97, although Maps Installed to the Mass Storage drive on the N97. Nice!!

mbrett
N97 RM-505 FW 10.0.012 (Vodafone UK)
N95 8Gb (Product Code: 0558787 (UK)) FW 31.0.015

Submitted by Anonymous30740 on 03-07-2009 18:27.

For your 4th issue: this sounds like a units setting. In the Map settings, make sure "System of Measurement" is set to Imperial on your N97.

Ravi

Submitted by lsongne on 22-07-2009 00:41.

I don't have issues keeping GPS locks....once I get them. The locks are faster than the generic location ttols loaded into my N97. However, I had faster locks after the f/w upgrade of a couple of weeks ago. Just about as fast as my E71. Then the latest Maps upgrade came out last week and my locks take a long time again.

Has anyone been able to see the landmarks in 3D on their N97?

Submitted by mbrett on 22-07-2009 08:20.

End up wondering if this could be related to first connect after installing maps via Map Loader. I haev identified that the safety camera data is downloaded OTA in first connect post map data install via map loader. If you have poor mobile reception during this first connect the safety camera data can become corrupt and not work. Maybe it's the same with the 3D landmarks.

I now back up the Cities folder and QF file after installing maps, again after running map loader and a third time after first connect.

I then use the post map loader backup to replace the cities folder and qf file if the first connect has safety camera issues. I also use the post first connect backup if the applications stops using the phone installed map data as has been identified as an issue in the latest maps version.

mbrett
N97 RM-505 (Product Code: 0585262 (Vodafone UK)) FW 11.0.021
N95 8Gb (Product Code: 0558787 (UK)) FW 31.0.015

Submitted by kevinx on 29-07-2009 15:48.

Been trying to get through to someone who can offer some sensible advice, but hopefully someone on here/reading this can help??

N97 received with s/w v10. Downloaded s/w v11. Advised to load oviMaps v3, so downloaded.

Whilst routing, the directions/navigations is OUT by 200 yards (600foot!). ie. I am instructed "In 200 yards turn left". That announcement is made when I am AT the junction.... As I drive through the junction, and leave it, I am THEN told "Turn left"..
If I drive beneath a flyover, I physically p[ass the flyover, but the mapping shows me as APPROACHING the flyover....
GPS signal often lost, which I am advised "GPS signal lost", and "Recalcultating". Whilst recalculating, I see myself (on the data) driving through fields etc etc....
I have removed the map data (cities folder), and re-downloaded maps 3. EXACTLY the same happens. Even when I have a CONSTANT sat fix, I am STILL shown as 600ft (200yards) away from where I actually am..

I am NOT alone in this, see http://discussions.europe.nokia.com/discussions/board/message?board.id=n... for others that are suffering the same problems..

Nokia "Customer Care!" have advised "The satellites are not owned by Nokia, but by the USA Government, so we can't do anything about the accuracy". C'mon guys. 10ft yes, BUT 600ft out!! NO way..

I am now on my THIRD N97, which actually came with s/w v11 already installed (previous two handsets I had downloaded myself through Nokia s/w updater). The mapping on this THIRD unit has Maps v2. The routing, positioning, announcements, location of myself on the map (whilst navigating) is SPOT ON 100%. NO loss of GPS signal, NO "recalculating" announcements. v2 is PERFECT. If I do decide to take a different route to that advised, then I am re-routed without any loss of data nor showing me driving through a field.

Is this an OviMaps v3 issue? Is this a bad batch of N97s' (in the case of my first two)?

I am sure you can understand my reluctance to load Maps 3, in case I end up with the same problem as before.

Anyone any ideas, please??

Cheers

Kevin I Chapple

NB/ Don't forget to check out http://discussions.europe.nokia.com/discussions/board/message?board.id=n... to see others who have the same problem.

Cheers

kevinx_98 on skype

Submitted by mbrett on 29-07-2009 16:44.

I am aware of the thead you are refering to as my phone keeps humming avery hour letting me know that more and more posts are being added.

This is a bug that was not apparent on the final beta version of OVI Maps 3, or at least I was not aware of it until I installed the final release version on my phone. After a few replacements of the Cities folder and QF file and installs form sis files instead of installs usnig the Map Updater I am not seeing this issue anymore (now that's tempting fate). I obtained a copy of the OVI Maps installer off the web, which had been extracted from Map Updater and keep that on my phone. I also back up the Cities folder ad QF file after first install and after first run post map data loading as this is when the speed camera data is downloaded. I did a couple of 4 hour drives over the weekend with no issues. I have since done a hard reset of my phone to sort out a Software Updater issue and then copied back my backups of the Cities folder and QF file and maps still appears to be working for me.

Hopefully Nokia will release an update to sort out some of these bugs soon. I strongly beleive it is a Maps issue and not a hardware issue as if it were hardware then the phone would not work correctly some of the time.

Can't guarantee this, but the weather in the UK has been pretty poor since the N97 released and I believe some of the GPS issues may have been caused by this. Not all, but some.

I realise I have not pointed you to any quick fixes, but it can work.

mbrett
N97 RM-505 (Product Code: 0585262 (Vodafone UK)) FW 11.0.021
N95 8Gb (Product Code: 0558787 (UK)) FW 31.0.015

Submitted by kevinx on 29-07-2009 17:27.

Cheers MB.

It's a pity that there is STILL no "official" line from Nokia, as opposed to them advising that" it is due to the satellites not being owned by them". Dohhhh.

I DON'T think it is a weather issue, as the previous two N97s' suffered the problem through sun, rain, storm, overcast, yet the THIRD (with Maps v2) works PERFECT. Instant acquisition, doesn't lose the sat image, reroutes seemlessly. perfect.

I shall remain with v2, until such time as Nokia/Beta labs wake up, and offer a resolve.

I'll bear your helpful post in mind though. Thanks

Cheers

Submitted by mbrett on 30-07-2009 08:06.

One way to verify would be to go to a known place and check it's GPS coordinates on a known good map (in the UK Ordnance Survey website allows you to view and download parts of their maps). Start "Location" and check what the GPS coordinates are that it advises and compare these with those obtained from the Ordnance Survay map. Alos note down the advised accuracy from "Location". Now close location and open "Maps" and wait for GPS lock. Now go to dashboard in maps and check what the GPS Coordinates are that it advises and compare these with both "Location" and the Ordnance Survey map. I get the feeling that the "Maps" "Dashboard" GPS coordinates will be different to both.

Another option would be o get everyone over at the discussions thread to do the same and report it on the discussions forum as this would build up a realtime case for if it is teh phones or the hardware. I am positive that it is not the Satellites, although the number of satellites visible at one time can affect GPS substantially and the state of the atmosphere between you and them.

mbrett
N97 RM-505 (Product Code: 0585262 (Vodafone UK)) FW 11.0.021
N95 8Gb (Product Code: 0558787 (UK)) FW 31.0.015

Submitted by kevinx on 30-07-2009 12:09.

MB,

""I am positive that it is not the Satellites"". If that line, cut from the above, was with regard to what a Nokia agent voiced, then I would discard TOTALLY that thought :-)

There is NO WAY that the difference would be out by 600ft, as EVERYONE would then suffer the same fate I feel sure. I think the comment made by the Nokia agent was pure "knee jerk, because I haven't got a clue" response!! It MUST have something to do with the map data, or a faulty batch of N97s', as my third is SPOT ON each and every time, faster locks, retained locks, and no constant re-routing.

Hope my response doesn't sound too abrupt, as it is NOT intended that way, but for a Nokia agent to even say that, and be serious, is a bit of a joke.

I still have the case open with Regenersis (N97 dedicated support) 'N97support@regenersisplc.com' and hopefully someone may take ownership of this. Maybe if more on here were to mail them, they may sit up a little more, and research??

I have also contacted a Nokia Flagship Store (in London), spoken with one of the techs who seems VERY responsive and he too is "taking the case forward", as he is aware of a number of complaints about this.

Cheers

PS/ In fact the tech at the Flagship Store suggested that although Ovi3 is now OUT of Beta, it is still early days for the gemlins to be found....

Submitted by mbrett on 30-07-2009 13:10.

The best way to prove phone hardware or software is the comparison test as detailed in my previous post.

mbrett
N97 RM-505 (Product Code: 0585262 (Vodafone UK)) FW 11.0.021
N95 8Gb (Product Code: 0558787 (UK)) FW 31.0.015

Submitted by navio1973 on 07-08-2009 11:30.

I think there is a difference between NM2 and OM3 that sould not be under estimated: the function "Maps improvement".
I have a strange sensation that if if is activate it could generate some problems, but I have to verify it.
Tomorrow I will drive for 1600 km, it could be good to test it.
Navio
Nokia E66-1 (218.04) FW 200.21.118
Nokia N95(01.01) V 31.0.017 RM 159
Nokia N97 V11.0.021 RM 505

Submitted by oolaoden97 on 13-08-2009 22:31.

After my experience testing the Ovi maps 3 for nearly two months, and after several installations/re-installations/hard reset of the phone/deleting cities folder and qf file, it is beyond me how this product could get two stars let alone four [unless the reviewer is somehow lucky to get a working, near perfect copy of the Ovi maps 3 or is a Nokia employee]. Awarding 4 stars out of 5 suggests it is a near perfect product, which is not in agreement with real user experience judging reaction from many other users on this forum including mine. It is, I might add what gives the Nokia maps guys a false sense of confidence that the product is stable enough to be graduated from beta. This is in sharp contrast to the Gmail, which wasn't graduated from beta for many years even though it had been stable for a long time before being graduated. Graduating a product from beta used to mean something.

Each time I plan a route on the OM3, its a toss up (50-50 probability) that the original route will be accurate. It is even a toss up on whether re-routing will be accurate if I'm lost or it will not loose gps fix or it will not put me on an adjacent road and give me bad directions. As a satnav software, this product fails even in its most fundamental duty to get me to where I'm going.

The customer service from NokiaUSA is nothing to write home about either. I called the tech support to complain about the odd routing behavior and they promised to get back to me in 48hrs, which never happened. I called again and they said the same before getting to me two weeks later only to tell me to hard reset my phone, delete the cities folder and qf file which I've done many times before and failed to work.

Save yourself some headache and switch to competitors that work and have a proven track record e.g Garmin, Navigon, Sygic, Tomtom etc !!!

Submitted by mbrett on 24-08-2009 16:20.

The four star rating was based on when it is working correctly. I admit that it has behaved better fo me than for most it appears.

I have deleted the Cities folder and QF file a number of times, but (touch wood) have been getting good GPS location of late. I also make a poitn of carrying a full bakup of the Cities folder and QF file on the F: drive of my phone incase of Cities folder data corruption/deletion. Yes I've had that bug to and was possibly the first poster on the issue, both here and over at http://discussions.nokia.co.uk/discussions/

I still rate is a good peice of software (when it's working correctly). I do accept my rating may not put enough weighting on the stability/buggyness of the app, but when I compare the feature capabilities against Nokia Maps 2:

Speed Limit Warner
Safety Camera Warner
Localised Weather detail on any locationn you select in Maps
Localised detail
The dashboard & GPS Coordinate data etc.

I do think it's worth the rating. They just need to sort out the stability/bugs. I was one of the first to post, all over the place, that it should have never Graduated when it did as the latest issue, for many, has been less stable than any of the BETA releases.

mbrett
N97 RM-505 (Product Code: 0585262 (Vodafone UK)) FW 11.0.021
N95 8Gb (Product Code: 0558787 (UK)) FW 31.0.015

Submitted by bitflung on 24-08-2009 15:54.

the issue seems to be two fold:

1. gps data is buffered and the buffer is not draining properly. this gives the impression of "being out by 600ft" or so, but if you think about it, how would it always be out 600ft such in your exact direction of travel? really, you are using stale gps data that was captured from the gps receiver several seconds ago and only now being digested by the maps application. i am not aware if this is a system level error, or internal to the maps - but i think the former due to point #2.

2. the gps receiver is reset periodically. without opening maps, start the Location application. goto GPS data and then Trip Distance. click options -> start. now wait, you will receiver notification that "GPS connection interrupted. Calculation may not be accurate". this is NOT an indication that sat. lock was lost, but rather that the gps receiver was not responding. similar to how the compass is 'reset' each time you open/close the screen, the gps is being reset periodically. what causes it? i dont know yet.

these two bugs may be related. perhaps there is a fifo filling up and not being drained properly. in the event it overflows, the location service may crash and be automatically restarted. this would make a LOT of sense: the hypothesis both matches observable conditions and assumes nothing that would not already be part of firmware (location service, fifo for crossing clock domains, buffer overflow exception handling causing service restart, service restart causing all ports to close).

the fundamental difference between maps 2.0 and maps 3.0? i believe that one of the following is true:
a) maps 3.0 installs a patch to the location service which is the root cause of the fault.
b) maps 2.0 uses an older method to access the gps receiver directly rather than through the location service.

anyone else out there with hardware and software expertise want to weigh in on this one?
-bit

Submitted by mbrett on 25-08-2009 08:01.

The good news is that Nokia have made a statement over on the discussions forums re: the loss of data on the N97.

"Hi,
I just wanted to let you all know that the issue of missing map data on the N97 has been reported to the Maps team who have identified the issue and are working on a fix for it.
We hope to have this released in an update for the Ovi Maps application soon.
Just wanted to thank you all for your feedback - keep it coming :smileyvery-happy:

Cheers"
[ http://discussions.nokia.co.uk/discussions/board/message?board.id=naviga... ]

Also found the following statement from Nokia:

"The following statement was released RE: the removal of Maps 3.0 for N97:
The Ovi Maps 3.0 version for touch devices (Nokia N97) is temporarily not available via the Nokia Software Update and www.nokia.com/maps website as we are making adjustments to further improve the overall maps and navigation experience. We are certain that the application will be back in Nokia Software Update and www.nokia.com/maps website shortly where consumers can easily upgrade to the new version of Ovi Maps."

[ http://discussions.nokia.co.uk/discussions/board/message?board.id=naviga... ]

mbrett
N97 RM-505 (Product Code: 0585262 (Vodafone UK)) FW 11.0.021
N95 8Gb (Product Code: 0558787 (UK)) FW 31.0.015

Submitted by onaiz on 01-09-2009 11:29.

I went to maps.nokia.com but it only allows me to download nokia map 2.0 that it already in my phone... please help me to find ovi maps 3.0 for my N97

Submitted by mbrett on 02-09-2009 08:33.

OVI Maps 3 has been pulled whilst Nokia try to sort the issues mentioned in my last post. There are copies of the installation file available on the net via Nokia user forums, but these have the risk of showing the issues mentioned in my last post. Hopefully the maps team will soon manage to sort the issues and Maps 3 will re-appear on the Maps download page.

mbrett
N97 RM-505 (Product Code: 0585262 (Vodafone UK)) FW 11.0.021
N95 8Gb (Product Code: 0558787 (UK)) FW 31.0.015

Submitted by navio1973 on 02-09-2009 00:14.

@mbrett
you have not read my thread http://betalabs.nokia.com/forum/topic/4127, it is already aviable from www.nokia.com/maps.
I cannot test it because my phone is at the nokia care, they told me that they need some days to repair it (gps, lens cover, cover, etc) :((((
Navio

Nokia N97 V12.0.024 RM 505

Submitted by mbrett on 02-09-2009 08:37.

The interesting thing is that I did read you post and replied to it and my reply no longer shows. Sure I posted my comment and it showed at the time.

Anyway the reason I posted the above comment here is that when I went to the Maps Site via your link and separately I still got Maps v2, which the link had been changed to a couple of days after they pulled Maps v3. When I have followed your link again today it is now showing Maps v3.

Have you installed it yet and what version number does it now show?

mbrett
N97 RM-505 (Product Code: 0585262 (Vodafone UK)) FW 11.0.021
N95 8Gb (Product Code: 0558787 (UK)) FW 31.0.015

Submitted by onaiz on 02-09-2009 09:26.

thank you very much for your reply I found one ovi map 3 from a third party site, fortunately i read your reply and i went to nokia original link there they add the map 3 again

Submitted by mbrett on 02-09-2009 11:12.

There is also a new Maps version for S60v5.
http://betalabs.nokia.com/betas/view/ovi-maps
(You can download teh .sis installation file from here to update on your phone without using Maps Updater and your PC if you are already running Maps 3.)

VERY PRETTY!

I also has a new forum:
http://betalabs.nokia.com/forums/ovi-maps

mbrett
N97 RM-505 (Product Code: 0585262 (Vodafone UK)) FW 11.0.021
N95 8Gb (Product Code: 0558787 (UK)) FW 31.0.015