Faster GPS lock on Google Maps than Nokia Maps with N97 and N95 8GB

Bugreport for Ovi Maps Beta for mobile (v3.03)

09-11-2009 20:12

I have a Nokia 95-8GB and N97 on both of these Devices Google Maps out perform in getting a GPS lock when in built up areas. How come on a Nokia Devices Google managed to get the best out of and Nokia seems to be failing. Please pass this to some one to look at it this will help Nokia in lots of support costs as I reading that Lots of N97 owners are taking their devices to Nokia Repair Centers. Also help to offset some of the bad press Nokia getting.

N97 FW 20.0.019
N95 FW 31.0.015

Nokia Maps version tried both released version 3.01 and 3.03 from beta labs.

Also is there newer version 3.03 avaliable for download test any sooner?

Kuru

Comments

Submitted by ramok on 10-11-2009 12:36.

I'm using Nokia 5800XM with latest available software (31.0.101.C03.01) and Ovi Maps (3.03 09wk35 b07) and I can confirm, that Google Maps can point my position with greater accuracy than Ovi Maps.

It's especially true within first seconds after launching these apps and in city areas. What I mean is that with Goole Maps I:
1. do not have the problem/bug I described some time ago realted to the need to restart Ovi Maps to get localized only by network-based localization (with Google it's a matter of a second after first run of app and I'm got localized),
2. with Google maps in city areas netwrok-based localization is much more accurate (beeter algorithm which more effictivly uses information from more than one BTS/GSM station?), and similar to Ovi when on rural areas (when probably one or just a few BTS'es are available),
3. most of time slightly better accuracy using GPS signal (once more time better algorithms?).

Well, I must say, if problems won't be solved, algorithms wont be revisited (position accuracy, route planing/navigating - I'm considering the Eastern Europe region here) and enhancements/features wont' be introduced, I'll be looking forward to/keen on new devices, in the form of Android 2 (like Motorola Droid) with Google Maps Navigation to name one of the kind...

And, what already was mentioned, You must be more open to community, Dear Nokia Developers/Managers. We write ours findings/suggestions, but You do not give us the note whether You have read our posts or not, whether the bug is known to You or not, and finally when another version is planned (if at all)! (so maybe You should consider "open to community" bug tracking system?, and/or something like IBM's "Community-Driven Commercial Development" -ProjectZero [projectzero.org/about/] and it's licensed version: Smash- cicle sholud be *the acceptable/much appreciated as a "next step"* solution).

Submitted by navio1973 on 10-11-2009 13:07.

Could you write us how are your positioning settings, I mean:
Assisted GPS
Internal GPS
Bluetooth GPS
Network based
and Servers (always, ask, etc)

Navio
Nokia N97 V20.0.019 RM 505

Submitted by kuru on 10-11-2009 13:34.

Hi, This is just simple to reproduce after my posts on various sites few of the users tried have confirmed this. Here is the list of setting I have on my mobile.

Networks set to be Dual (not fixing with either UTMS or GSM)

GPS was left to default settings (Which when I checked all but Bluetooth are enabled)
Assisted GPS Enabled
Internal GPS Enabled
Bluetooth GPS Disabled
Network based Enabled

Servers always set to go online for data
Don't use Wifi at all and disabled

Position Server use set Automatic
Accesspoint 3 (But not is question I have tried Vodafonesame effect)
Server address Default (supl.nokia.com)

Have tried after reboot and and waited long enough to system load and gone to new location tried with following mobiles

N97 FW 20.0.019
N95 FW 31.0.015

Nokia maps version tried
3.01
3.03

Google Map version tried
3.2.1
Latest Google voice search with location service enabled

Google much fater than Nokia Maps and Nokia Location have the same issues

If you need any other setting or test let me know I will get them back to you.

Cheers
Kuru

Submitted by ramok on 10-11-2009 17:03.

Assisted, Internal and Network based enabled, Bluetooth disabled.

Servers: (sorry if not correct/exact name, I'm "translating" from Polish to English right now, since my phone's language is set to Polish):
Positioning server etc.: Automatically in home network/Internet/supl.nokia.com

In Ovi Maps: Connection -online, Network destination -Internet, Roaming worning -on

Submitted by navio1973 on 10-11-2009 21:23.

Thank you for your answer.
Your fix is fast because every time that you start up OM, the phone made a data connection (umts or Gprs never WIFI) to the nokia servers to download the positions of the satellites.
You have to remember that the data connection could have some costs in your own country and could be expansive abroad.
Navio
Nokia N95(01.01) V 31.0.017 RM 159
Nokia N97 V20.0.019 RM 505

Submitted by kuru on 11-11-2009 01:07.

So what is your point. It is the same conditions for Both google and Nokia why can't Nokia take advantage if there is a Network connection that may be UTMS, GMS, or Wifi. By the way that was the default settings as well.

What Nokia needs to understand Once most peoplestart using the GPS on their mobiles it will not just to get directions any more for Driving directions few minutes to get GPS lock is not that bad.

But when
1) Locate Google services, Weather, Pizza, ATM, etc
2) Using Accuweather Widget one of the best selling point shipped with N97
3)Walking directions
4)Modern apps like where I parked my Car etc.
5)I hear that Nokia woking on Maps inside built up areas and buildings
5) What ever I missed...

then getting GPS lock quicker does matters.

As for what you saying is true data plan is far too expensive when go abroad but then you make sure the software inteligent enough not to go online when Roaming. I am sure there is already a setting for this but needs bit more improvements.

I bet if Nokia can get GPS lock quick you will have far less people going to get the device fixed under warrenties.

Kuru

Submitted by ramok on 11-11-2009 12:47.

Exactly, what is Your point saying that? Ovi Maps and Google Maps have the same opportunities to get/estimate/point network based, assisted and "real sattelite" position. And Google Maps in my case does this without a bug i have with latests version of Ovi Maps (vide my previous posts about that problem and my "workaorund") and with better accuracy when network-based positioning is the only/first one (before GPS signal gets locked).

And as I'm writing about accuracy: when I was traveling a lot in Slovakia's mountain area (between Liptovski Mikulas and Poprad, once through Smokovce and otherwise the main road underneath mountains between aforementioned cities), accuracy was terrible. For example when I was driving main road, which then had a crossroad from wich another one goes one side and after a while, in a 100-200 meters distant, goes alongside (side by side to the main road), even I was still driving the main one without changing my direction, Ovi Maps (it was 3.01 version then, to clarify) showed my position in a "lottery manner" -once on the right, main road, and another time the oder, miner road (recalculating route ever time!), despite there was no other crossroads between these two roads...

BTW: I have data plan signed, so downloading is only a problem when I'm not in the range of BTS'es in my own country. But the real pain is when I'm abroad -when roaming is active, I "can not" (becouse of the very, very high prices) use the "A" from A-GPS acronym ;)

Submitted by navio1973 on 11-11-2009 21:13.

Have you ever tried a bluetooth gps?
I have a 3-4 years old one and it make the fix in maximun 50 seconds. It does not use an internet connection to fix, it is accurate and it never lose my position with any mobile navigation software (ovi maps incluede). Why the internal gps of the our mobile cannot have similar performance?
Navio
Nokia N95(01.01) V 31.0.017 RM 159
Nokia N97 V20.0.019 RM 505

Submitted by kuru on 12-11-2009 01:43.

Hi Navio,

I am bit confused over here does Nokia Software Engineers look at these website for reported bugs!!! I don't want to go off the main issue here which is a bug in a sence that Nokia Ovi Maps all version including the Beta version have an issue not effectively using the Available methods (A-GPS, GPS, Network) to find the GPS lock quick enough. When under same conditions Google Maps and Google Voice Search does a better Job. There is only one reason that the software is buggy so if you are not the person then can you please forward this to Nokia QA test department or software engineer reponsible. I have worked as a QA Test engineer for Novell and I do also Beta test Microsoft Products. So If any help needed to test please let me know.

If you only an outsider just like us then please accept my appologies. The way Google defining Android 2.0 and Voice navigation with street view it may be tto late for Nokia if they can't get simple stuff fixed.

Kuru

Submitted by Anonymous30740 on 12-11-2009 09:00.

The beta labs people used to look at our reports in the past. But now us (the users) have given up on the latest beta, and I'm guessing the beta labs people are doing something else. These forums are next to useless now.

The developers will probably start looking here again after the next half-a$$ed beta release of maps. But don't hold your breath.

Submitted by navio1973 on 12-11-2009 20:48.

I found this thread http://betalabs.nokia.com/forum/topic/4315#17901 very interesting, specially the comment nr 8 of tommivilkamo about Beta Labs.

Navio
Nokia N95(01.01) V 31.0.017 RM 159
Nokia N97 V20.0.019 RM 505

Submitted by navio1973 on 12-11-2009 23:48.

first thing, I am a user like you, I do not work for Nokia. I do not if you saw it, the nokia workers have a blue logo near the avatar.
I agree with you when you wrote that other programs use better the equipment of the phone, but as you know OVI maps is very young, not like Garmin or Sygic, I always wrote that the algorythm for the calculation of the route is wrong.
I do not use Google maps because I have not a good data plan. When I used it few times ago, I was impressed how it found my position even if shut down the gps.

Navio
Nokia N95(01.01) V 31.0.017 RM 159
Nokia N97 V20.0.019 RM 505

Submitted by Anonymous30740 on 12-11-2009 22:44.

I wasn't referring to you as an employee navio... I apologize if it seemed that way. And beta labs only has 2 employees??! Working on half a dozen projects at once? No wonder progress is so slow! Guess we really should cut them more slack.

Thanks for the link to that thread navio ... it's a very interesting read.

Submitted by navio1973 on 13-11-2009 00:01.

If you read better, they build the bridge between Nokia R&D and us, it means the bridge between the several teams of nokia (they work to the projects like Ovi Maps, Ovi Contact, etc) and us. For me, the Betalabs team works only to the project "Betalabs" and what I can see is that Ilkka and Tommi give always us a prompt reply
Navio
Nokia N95(01.01) V 31.0.017 RM 159
Nokia N97 V20.0.019 RM 505

Submitted by kuru on 13-11-2009 01:23.

Thanks guys you are great but Nokia does nned to better sort out these issues and start writing better software or they will loose even some hard core users no matter what hardware they produce. I do like N97 a lot even with limited RAM. I put any issues in the main Nokia fourm in the future it probabley get better coverage.

Kuru