Nokia Beta Labs, Shaping the future together

Use of an archive folder in each forum could be of use for older, yet useful threads. This could be based on time since last post. i.e. Some threads may be old but offer useful information.

Infact there could even be a usefull info folder containing posts deamed to provide useful information to be used as a "look here first".

mbrett
N95 8Gb (Product Code: 0558787 (UK)) FW 31.0.018

http://betalabs.nokia.com/forum/topic/1540#comment-13344
hehe :D
U know im already up for it :)

Iikka it seems you want to make the move of relieving some weight off your shoulders(which im happy to hear) by empowering the community.

I like how you will use my idea(flagging on large scale) and take it a step forward with trusted community members.
Let the trials begin!

I dont agree with "obsolete" or "unpublish" unless its nonsense(wich ive seen over the forum) OR and IF said by the dev team.

If we don't "unpublish" we should move them to a sub-folder to keep the main application folders more compact.

mbrett
N95 8Gb (Product Code: 0558787 (UK)) FW 31.0.018

@snowy, heh :) yes, you said it out loud first, I admit.

So, let's take a few case examples. What should happen when
1) a user posts the same post in multiple categories, i.e. spams the forum
2) a user posts a bug report / suggestion / something else, that has already been discussed before, i.e. a duplicate
3) a user behaves offensively, breaks the terms in some way or otherwise breaks the law for example
4) a thread contains valuable information, e.g. a clear problem and a good answer to that problem
5) a bug report is filed and it's a new bug
6) a bug report is filed and it's a known bug (okay, the same as #2)
7) a bug report is old, and the bug is fixed in a newer version

Any other cases come into mind? (I'll give my own 'guess' in another comment)

1.) Attach to one topic.
2.) Attach to one topic
3.) Report to you.
4.) let it be.
5.) let it be
6.) same as #2
7.) delete

P.S You must tell me again what options of editing do you have.
Example: Attach, edit title, delete etc........

1) attach/merge and unpublish the duplicates - and/or add a "similar posts" link
2) attach/merge and unpublish the duplicates - and/or add a "similar posts" link
3) Report to you guys (agreed)
4) Move to a new sub-folder titiled ("Useful Info" or "Check Here First" or use to create some sort of FAQs or wiki.
5) let it be (agreed) - If everything else is sorted then this should not need to be touched.
6) Close post and tag a "Similar Posts" link to it
7) Close post and report that it is fixed to move to "Archive" folder. This then shows progress/informs users that it should be fixed in the new version

mbrett
N95 8Gb (Product Code: 0558787 (UK)) FW 31.0.018

The current tools are fairly limited. I can pretty much see who flagged the item, see the owner of the item, see the reason and then, either go to the item, delete it or unflag it. If I go to the item, there I can edit the content or unpublish it (the comment or the whole thread).

But the good news is, we can build stuff. So feel free to come up with ideas. What I am currently after is building a set of preferably simple tools. I'm thinking different flagging types, a central "flagged items" page where you can "check-in" a flagged item for yourself and do whatever is necessary.

Wikis are an interesting idea too. Have to think about where they would be placed site design-wise.

Sounds all cool......But no attachment is kinda going to make it ruff

The simlpest method of attach would be to close the duplicates and add a hyperlink on each of the posts linking to each of the others with a flag after the link saying "live" or "closed". You could then add a filter to the forum like "Show Live" or hide "Closed".

mbrett
N95 8Gb (Product Code: 0558787 (UK)) FW 31.0.018

We can definitely see into attaching topics to each other. And all the sub-folders too. Let's see what the ideal solution would look like, then I need to see how feasible that is, see how doable that is and so-on. But at this phase, no hard limits.

Oh awesome idea came to me.
A auto flagging category.
So far its only one tab....so there is room for more.
An example would be for offensive comment with a blue color icon like the nokia staff icon.
So no need to type reason just click and it goes to admin.
More examples?

Update: No one is goin to bother typing reason for flagging so this should work in their favor.

If the flagging is made into too much of a "one click" process I would be worried that it could become too easy and become abused. Commenting on the reason shows why you are flagging the post. The problem may be that what one person finds offenseive others do not. Some cases may need the info entry field to identiy the reason for flagging. Although, as long as the user name and email are logged with the flag an email could be sent requesting more info in extenuating cercumstances.

Other flags could be:

"Duplicate": Then user is required to enter link to duplicate.
"Move":
Maybe even "Suitably Answered" - only flaggable by the originator of the post.
"Possible Answer" - flaggable by anyone in the forum.
"Corrected" - flaggable by the dev team.

etc.

mbrett
N95 8Gb (Product Code: 0558787 (UK)) FW 31.0.018

@llkka have you seen teh support forum at www.qik.com. Seems pretty smooth. Big change, but this kind of thing could help. What are you thoughts

See:
http://getsatisfaction.com/qik

mbrett
N95 8Gb (Product Code: 0558787 (UK)) FW 31.0.018

Yeah, I've seen getsatisfaction and we've discussed it here. There are a lot of aspects we like about it but there are some threats we see in using it. Nokia too has it's getsatisfaction page: http://getsatisfaction.com/nokia

There are not that many differences technically to our forum here. Users are able to report bugs, suggest things and ask questions. They are then able to "vote" for existing things (i.e. "I have the same question"). To me, this voting is the thing that separates our forum from this system, and it is the feature I find most problematic. See my comment #25 on this thread http://betalabs.nokia.com/forum/topic/229

But we should definitely try to learn from them in ways we can. At least getsatisfaction seems tremendously popular among users. I'm just afraid it might turn into a niche-dominated demonstration.

I was just quite impressed with the auto keyword search when entering your text initially to reduce repeat posts. This kind of thing could help reduce clutter in the betalabs forums.

mbrett
N95 8Gb (Product Code: 0558787 (UK)) FW 31.0.018

This is something we've been planning for some while now, and will add it as soon as we can. Both a way to quickly search the current forum with keywords - see the results in an easy AJAX-like way, but also, while typing the subject for a new post, these previous similar posts would be suggested to the user.

There are possible uses for the voting, as long as it is managed.

Each username can only vote once for a specific post.

mbrett
N95 8Gb (Product Code: 0558787 (UK)) FW 31.0.018

Damn, missing in all the action :( Am interning in the summer hols, don't get time to be online as often as i would like.
Taking the help of community members to keep the forum clean is definitely a nice initiative.

Moving the topic to the right forum, merging duplicate threads, deleting multiple posts could be undertaken by the trusted members.

As for deleted topics & posts, they can be sent to a private & only for the Admins / Mods & Trusted members forum, from where, if required or if the support teams feel that the topic / post shouldn't have been deleted, it can be restored. But that forum won't be viewable by the public. This will ensure a cross check on the deleted posts / topics, as well as ensure the spam is kept away from the public view.

Nokia N85 : FW 20.175
www.twitter.com/alsiladka

@alsiladka: So what you are suggesting is like a "Recycle Bin" for the Betalabs Forum, not vrewable by the public. I quite like that idea as a safety net as long as server space supports this. In the same way as you PC "Recycle Bin" the admin guys could have the power to "Empty Bin".

Would you agree that each room of the forums needs it's own or would you have a "Moved From" field to filter by and a single Bin?

mbrett
N95 8Gb (Product Code: 0558787 (UK)) FW 31.0.018

Iikka where does involving the beta projects teams stand here. their input is valuable( as i believe you already agree).
Should we have an open session? or should they leave their feedback over the thread or private.
Lets see what they see room for improvement.

@comment #16, glad to see its coming alive :D
I see it crucial to have attachment system since it will decrease the amount of open topics over the forum, its nice to have things repeated for the project team(s).
mbrett does suggest a good work around(comment #9 without the attachment tool.

If i had the "POWER" (HEHE)..........
I would simply attach a bunch of open topics together that falls under a theme and replace the topic title. Of course with delicacy:P
Example. maps 3.0. fp1 issues.....BAM!! Under one topic.

Alsi, wassup!!

Lets take your example one step further:

We should make it Maps 3.0 Version ###, FP1 Issue . . . WAP BAM BOOM!!! One Topic

It's all about the version/revision baby. Yeh!

mbrett
N95 8Gb (Product Code: 0558787 (UK)) FW 31.0.018

Yes your sooo right, the version/revision.
like u say for maps. A folder for issues/trouble shot. That has gotten in the way of innovation.

Must think about solutions written accros the forum.
Color it green, just like the stickys that are blue.

Would be useful to have them filterable aswell.

Also would be a good idea to close (Read Only) when solution accepted as furhter posts mess up the thread when added after a solution is accepted.

@llkka: Thought I should mention that having a link to the closed thread when you have duplicates is not working.

e.g.
http://betalabs.nokia.com/forum/topic/2290

When I click on the link I end up at a page syanig:
"You are not authorized to access this page. "

mbrett
N95 8Gb (Product Code: 0558787 (UK)) FW 31.0.018

@mbret: Ok, thanks. I should've known that. :) Darn. Oh well... So currently there's no way I can unpublish a post without making it not accessible for others.

@all: this seems to be a very interesting discussion here. I'm already sure this will lead to something great! Thanks already for discussing, and keep it going. So far, I completely agree with how the categories should work and I trust we can provide the tools needed.

Nothing much fun Snowy, the temp. here in my hometown makes it feel like nothing short of a furnace! Trust me, going out during the day feels like sitting besides fire, Its that hot!

Work + Family takes up most of the time, though i try & keep up with the news & events via Twitter & Emails. Can't get much time for the forums.
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@mbrett
Yup, exactly like a recycle bin. Though i would prefer a global recycle bin, with so many forums in Betalabs, going through the bins in every forum would in itself take up a lot of time. Just imaging having to go through all the forums just to see if there is any new item in the bin!

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As for you two talking of combining all the Maps 3 FP1 issues topics together, I disagree! That would completely kill the productivity and easy which you get with the database & hierarchy based forums! If all the issues are combined in one topic, the discussions for each of the issues would take place in the single topic. In such a scenario, you have to go through the entire stream of new posts just to see whether your issue has been discussed further, or any new issue has been found.

Instead, the hierarchy which you currently get with the Forums & topics structure, will help address the issue better. I don't have to go through the discussions on issues in which i can't provide any assistance, or which don't interest me. I can choose which topics to open by reading the titles only.

in the scenario you are talking about, 5 issues with 20 posts for each issue will result in a single topic with 100 posts! And the 100 posts won't be in any particular order, you will have to go through each of the posts to see which issue it is related to! This also makes it difficult to keep track of the issues. I personally stop visiting the threads which i have myself started once i see it has gone off-topic or its scope has widened beyound what i would have liked. Sorry, but don't have that much time to go through the extra posts.

Compare this with the scenario where all the 5 issues are posted in the respective threads. You don't have 1 thread with 100 posts, you have 5 threads with 20 posts each. Makes it so much easier to follow the issues which interest you or relate to you.

But if you want to put all those topic under a separate sub-forum, then there is no problem. Thats an even refined database with a better hierarchy.

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As for closing the resolved threads, i wouldn't go as far as closing them, but like the Nokia Discussion Boards, the option to select any particular solution as the working solution would be great. So that if ever the issues resurfaces, or someone needs more help, he doesn't have to start another topic on the same subject.

Nokia N85 : FW 20.175
www.twitter.com/alsiladka

I also think that separate sub folders for older versions of the apps might help when a new version is released. This may help people undestand which version is being discussed, although some users either won't know which version they are using or if they do just won't post which version it is.

The solution button, like in the discussion forums, certainly wouldn't hurt in tidying up the forums and some way of re-openning a solved thread may help, but it can be frustrating when a problem has been posted and a solution has been provided , but then others start posting off topic after the solution. Maybe if the post header could be pastel greened when it is an accepted solution. This way if further posts are made, then it would still be easy to find the solution. This would not negate the need to control the addition of posts after the solution as this could result in two or more different solutions to two or more different problems in the same thread.

Maybe there could be a way for admin or trusted members to split threads as well as perging and closing them.

mbrett
N95 8Gb (Product Code: 0558787 (UK)) FW 31.0.018

I agree with Alsi to leaving the solotion thread open.
I also agree with mbrett about the color and other mentioned

One issue I see with closing the thread is that it will result in a higher number of threads. There are bound to be threads, which are closed, although somebody would like to still continue them. Say a thread is given a working solution and is closed. Then somebody realizes the working solution isn't complete and for certain devices it is different. It is counter-productive if the user needs to start a new thread.

I do admit it is a bit frustrating when people continue off-topic discussion on a thread. But if we had a way of highlighting a working solution, it might draw enough attention, so people wouldn't continue off-topic things on the thread. And even if people continued to do so, it would not decrease the value of the thread and would not crowd the thread (which currently is the biggest problem). If there were new questions being asked in the same thread, they might just go in vain. If it was seen necessary, a new thread could be opened to address that problem.

Comments?

What if you could split threads or create daughter threads?

Split thread
This would be used to create new threads from off-topic posts/discussions. Not sure how this could be implemented. Just a thought at present.

Daughter Threads
Rather than posting on to the end of the thread, the user could create a new daughter or reference thread linked to the original "Solved" thread somehow seperate from the solved thread but with strong links to it detailling either a similar unsolved issue or a variant of the original issue which is not solved by the "Solution". Again I need to give this more thought.

mbrett
N95 8Gb (Product Code: 0558787 (UK)) FW 31.0.018