Nokia Beta Labs

I understand that some Java

I understand that some Java applications may run slowly on some versions of Symbian. But this is not the case with this product. I think you'll find this app is quite snappy.

The Beta is only available for the E75 right now, but we'll be adding support for some additional devices through the summer.

Don't get me wrong...

But your comment is not only off point in relevance to my posting, but it only further pushes the idea that Nokia Beta Labs are disconnected with the consumer submitted feedback. I don't care if this is a faster better improved Java; at the end of the day I am using a Symbian OS not a basic Java centric OS. I may not directly pay you for innovation in software, but I do purchase Nokia products. So what bothers me and others; is the fact that you are wasting time with Java testing of this beta, when you could be working on a better suited native Symbian application. Truly there is a disconnect In Nokia Software management, and I hope this brings more attention to this awful truth.

I agree with rafael. The

I agree with rafael. The consumer feedback is obviously in vain.

So, steve, please tell your bosses (again) that we don't want the java aplications on Symbian powered phones. If we wanted, we could have bought some cheaper devices.

It is so obvious that the master decisions are made by people who don't use such aplications.

Nokia continues to develop

Nokia continues to develop native applications for Symbian - for example, Nokia Messaging's email product. The fact this particular Beta uses Java certainly doesn't signal any shift away from from that. You'll see further native app development from Nokia in the future.

The point of Java

Lets say, if Nokia decides to ship applications for all devices (including advanced java), there is a point in doing such thing.
The only J2ME apps I know to be accepted and liked by Symbian community are Opera Mini and some mail application which is also chosen for being to able to run in every device which comes with J2ME.
Stop fantasy things and use that great framework you paid millions, Trolltech Qt.

Again with the disconnect...

Steve,

Let me be clear about the point I'm trying to make, and do not post a response if you don't agree with it because so far your responses are robotic at best... I am not saying that you shouldn't work on Java application testing; nor that Java is irrelevant to S60. I just don't agree with potential/future Symbian S60 apps being tested in Java on the grounds that Java is a secondary language in the Symbian OS ecosystem. And by that I mean: Consumers want native Symbian apps on their Symbian OS smartphone because they've bought Symbian OS smartphones. I don't think I can be any clearer than that. For example: Apple doesn't bother producing Java apps because they know they have a better native language that takes advantage of all system specs, resources and potential. So why would Nokia bother with Java, when they can get more out of a native symbian app? That's just asking for controversy in my opinion, and yet another reason why communication seems to be lost between the consumer and Nokia.

AND FOR THE RECORD: if your target for this app testing is compatibility with S40 Devices; then why use an S60 Device for testing grounds?

@llqaz & @rafael_roce Have

@llqaz, @kresendo & @rafael_roce

Have either of you even tried the application? It's awesome.

Who cares what the extension is really, try out the damn app first and provide some relevant and constructive feedback for crying out loud..

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Phone Specs: N97-3 | RM-507 | Firmware: V11.2.021
All thoughts & opinions expressed above are my own, and not of any other organization

To Jamaal...

My comment is not directed at the quality of this particular Java application; in fact I have no doubt that it is acceptable given its Beta nature. Of course, I'm not as lucky as you by having the only model this Beta is currently running on. I happen to own 4 Nokia smartphones(E70, N95, 5800XM, and N97) running Symbian OS, and despite the range covered; none are compatible with this Beta. One more thing by the way: If you don't understand what my concern is about; then don't bother posting your comments unless you intend to help the Symbian community. Plain and simple: You didn't buy a Java OS smartphone did you?... And please take no offense but I am looking at the bigger picture and not just what's in front of me.

I cant stresss enough

how Rafael is right about this.
It seems to me that Nokia lost it's sense of direction. They really don't know where they want to bring company. We have Symbian OS, the very reason i am a nokia user, which needs to be exploited to fullest yet. And then Nokia aquers QT!! Great, i am 10 year linux user and KDE is my desktop of choice, so go for it Nokia, you have plenty to do. Stop waisting time on mediocre projects.
We will be gladly testing your apps and providing you with professional detailed feedback, just please, pretty please stop bringing out java apps for E/N series phones.
Drop java, start implementing QT, and make sure that all potential of s60 is realized.

Quote: "I am not saying that

Quote:
"I am not saying that you shouldn't work on Java application testing; nor that Java is irrelevant to S60. I just don't agree with potential/future Symbian S60 apps being tested in Java on the grounds that Java is a secondary language in the Symbian OS ecosystem..."

I suppose you are against the development of desktop OS Java and Flash applications as well? j/k It's probably Java as a mechanism to develop and launch it for multiple versions of the Symbian OS more efficiently...

And be patient, it has just been released on one device for a few days! It will probably make its way to the rest of the line shortly. Well, from what you guys said, it uses a Nokia Messenging server... and yeah, I think they can easily set up a presence server to achieve the same purpose using the embedded client. But then again, if they did, it would be open to ALL presence-enabled phones such as Motorolas and Sony Ericssons. I'm thinking Nokia wants to make this piece of software and their free chat server proprietary.

Patience is a virtue...

pham0100,

However, the current state of Nokia and Symbian does not allow such virtue... I'm not sure if you are trying to comfort me or validate the use of mobile Java on a Symbian OS; however I am short of patience with the lack of direction Nokia has shown lately. And I'm sure that they know this with the competition more aggressive than ever.

I am not advocating anything, but the fact that Nokia needs to stop and re-focus their long term goals in respect to the software that complements their hardware. Mobile Java can exist within Symbian, but it should not be the focus of testing Symbian apps within Nokia's software development here at Nokia Beta Labs.

@Rafael_Roce You claim that

@Rafael_Roce

You claim that you're looking at the big picture when in fact your not. You're stuck on this 'java is not worthy' mentality with zero feedback applicable to actual beta application and it is very counter-productive to this community. I didn't think that this was about corporate decisions and politics as much as it is about the beta apps...

I'd wager that a large marjority of the Symbian user base does not care whether the app ends in .SIS, .WGZ or .JAR. What they want, and what I want, is something that works and something that works well.

Unlike you, I've actually used this particular application on my wife's E75, and I can tell you that this .JAR application kicks the crap out of the unstable .SIS (Ovi Contacts) variant.

It's a much smoother and fluid interface and one that I'd prefer to use on my N97 quite frankly and I think that if it's properly implemented and integrated it will do well for the general user base.

If it gets ported to .SIS format, even better, but I'm thankful to have the opportunity to participate at this early stage of the application and provide my feedback pertaining to the app. I'm not trying to boil the ocean as you seem to be trying to do..

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Phone Specs: N97-3 | RM-507 | Firmware: V11.2.021
All thoughts & opinions expressed above are my own, and not of any other organization

Dear Jamaal...

Again, I urge you to not post any more replies in this thread if you do not understand where I'm coming from. In fact to be honest, this thread goes beyond the initial argument presented, but you have yet to see the bigger picture. It seems to me that you are either incapable of understanding my point or you just want to have the last word on this discussion.

I started this thread with the purpose of discussing the topic of application development on Nokia Beta Labs and how it affects the expansion/growth of the Symbian OS community in the wake of newcomers like mobile MacOS X, Android, and WebOS. All of which I guarantee you are not wasting their time with mobile Java development in contrast to their respective OS language for their applications.

Jamaal, I'm not trying to convince you of anything; nor do I intend to belittle your opinion of this particular mobile Java beta application. And you are right about one thing though; I'm trying to start a change in the Symbian Community. I want both the developers and the beta testers on the same page; to better improve the end user experience for the consumer. And while the majority of users don't care how the apps are coded(Apple iPhone users for example); the type of extension used to code the apps is reflected in it's quality to purchase ratio(Again, Apple iPhone users for example). And to be clear: when an application is equally dedicated quality coding in mobile Java and Symbian; the Symbian version will outshine the mobile Java version hands down.

My purpose in continuing this discussion thread: is to raise awareness of the communication disconnect between the developers and beta testers in Nokia Beta Labs. Or have you not noticed the lack of communication by the staff of Nokia Beta Labs in this discussion thread?... By educating the community on the basics of proper communication; I intend to make a positive impact in the future of Symbian OS.

Let's keep it constructive

Interesting discussion, but before this thread goes more personal, I hope everybody remembers to focus on the applications, and not on criticizing each other.

Good point Ilkka...

And thank you for jumping in the discussion. I do tend to be very passionate in defending my opinion against those who question it without understanding it. I hold no grudge against Jamaal's comments; he is in his right in presenting his view. And if I responded to him strongly, it's because he is not listening to what I'm trying to say here.

Anyway, I just realized that the native Symbian Chat client is being used by the Ovi Contacts Beta. I downloaded Ovi Contacts for my N97, and found out through the forum that the native symbian client I found hidden; is being used for the Ovi Contacts beta. Now I understand a bit why this beta was built on the mobile Java format. But like I read on the other forum; IM and Email clients should remain separate and not in the same program. In fact, Nokia Beta Labs should just consolidate this beta into the Ovi Contacts Beta, so that we have a one-stop IM client built in to the OS.

Much Thanks to those who understood where I was coming from, and I look forward to continuing my impact on the Symbian Community through the forums here at Nokia Beta Labs!

Long live Nokia! =)

Let me reiterate...

Like I said in the other thread, and as Rafael also pointed out; combining an IM app with an email app is a bad move, Nokia. Email is a necessity, a lifeline for many mobile professionals, and it's the reason i started using smartphones years ago. IM is nice, a novelty somewhat, but, nowhere as useful or as needed as a good, stable messaging app. Combining the two would make my email app more resource hungry, sucking up precious RAM and draining my battery. I do not want that. And I'm willing to bet that millions of your users do not want that either.

Ovi Chat was progressing nicely. It's integrated with my contacts, (like it should be, not with my messaging app) it's native and it supports homescreen status. Just ditch this crummy IM app and give Ovi Chat the ability to work across different protocols and be done with it.