Beta Labs forum posts http://betalabs.nokia.com/forums/sports-tracker/rss Forum posts for Sports Tracker. 2009 Nokia. All rights reserved. en Forum 60 Mon, 23 Nov 2009 12:59:26 +0000 Mon, 23 Nov 2009 12:59:26 +0000 Discussion: MapMyRide|walk|Run etc support by psycik While i love the SportsTracker software on the phone, I think the website use is a little limited. Ideally integration with the MapMyxxxx.com website would leave the Nokia devs with just concetrating on the app and MapMyxxx with the web site...

]]> http://betalabs.nokia.com/forum/topic/5113 topic Sun, 22 Nov 2009 23:52:29 +0000 http://betalabs.nokia.com/forum/topic/5113 Suggestion: Bluetooth heart rate monitor for any Nokia phone running Sports Tracker by odriv Hello
I use E71 and SportsTracker. While trying to make sense out of why it is not possible to just go into any sports shop or webshop for gadgets and buy a bluetooth heart rate monitor that sends data to any phone, I came over this nice product: http://www.mobimotion.com/index.php?id=brustgurt&L=1

]]> http://betalabs.nokia.com/forum/topic/5096 topic Thu, 19 Nov 2009 09:39:22 +0000 http://betalabs.nokia.com/forum/topic/5096 Comment to 'Discussion: 5800 doesnt upload workout to the Nokia Sports Tracker web service' by qwavel I've recently started using ST 2.06 on my 5800.

I find that the ability to upload is intermittent. Sometimes it works, sometimes it gets stuck and just keep showing "uploading" until I cancel. Seems that I just have to wait and try again later.

]]> I've recently started using ST 2.06 on my 5800.

I find that the ability to upload is intermittent. Sometimes it works, sometimes it gets stuck and just keep showing "uploading" until I cancel. Seems that I just have to wait and try again later.

]]> http://betalabs.nokia.com/forum/topic/4985#comment-19818 comment Wed, 18 Nov 2009 00:24:31 +0000 http://betalabs.nokia.com/forum/topic/4985#comment-19818 Suggestion: Accumulated altitude by vardi On Sportstracker we can get the min & max altitude.it will be nice to get the accumulated altitude for the all workout.

]]> http://betalabs.nokia.com/forum/topic/5078 topic Mon, 16 Nov 2009 15:21:51 +0000 http://betalabs.nokia.com/forum/topic/5078 Comment to 'Suggestion: The ability to continue the last workout after the phone lost his power' by vardi I tried several external chargers. all of them are good for emergency calls and not suitable to charge the phone for several hours

]]> I tried several external chargers. all of them are good for emergency calls and not suitable to charge the phone for several hours

]]> http://betalabs.nokia.com/forum/topic/4970#comment-19800 comment Mon, 16 Nov 2009 15:09:06 +0000 http://betalabs.nokia.com/forum/topic/4970#comment-19800 Comment to 'Suggestion: The ability to continue the last workout after the phone lost his power' by LaurinAurelius Fastest & easiest solution would be an "extra power" thing like Nokia DC-11 or DC-8.
Because normaly your phone informs you several minutes before it is out of energy with a bep or something. Then simply plugin the extra power and continue like normal...
Maybe there is third party apparel for less money...

But I think the function should be integrated anyway. Until this happens we have to be sattisfied with the extra power solution.

MfG
Laurin.

]]> Fastest & easiest solution would be an "extra power" thing like Nokia DC-11 or DC-8.
Because normaly your phone informs you several minutes before it is out of energy with a bep or something. Then simply plugin the extra power and continue like normal...
Maybe there is third party apparel for less money...

But I think the function should be integrated anyway. Until this happens we have to be sattisfied with the extra power solution.

MfG
Laurin.

]]> http://betalabs.nokia.com/forum/topic/4970#comment-19781 comment Sat, 14 Nov 2009 23:18:07 +0000 http://betalabs.nokia.com/forum/topic/4970#comment-19781 Discussion: GPS Sirffstar iv - When will Nokia change to Ed IV by happymeal Concerning dramatic GPS improvement.
As you might have read, the producer of the Sirffstar iii chipset has now come with the much improved Sirffstar iv product.
This Ed iv takes less energy and is always standby and thus is instantly 'fixed'.
Should be on the market since last month.

Well Nokia, could you answer this, and also tell me in which particular mobile phone type I can expect this improved GPS use?
Sincerely,
IT Oei
The Netherlands

]]> http://betalabs.nokia.com/forum/topic/5067 topic Sat, 14 Nov 2009 22:54:30 +0000 http://betalabs.nokia.com/forum/topic/5067 Comment to 'Review: *0* Solution for heartrate counting...maybe' by LaurinAurelius Hello everybody!!

The above solution is not working like I (we) want to...
but there is a new one.

The belt is from Zephyr and it's possible to afford. Maybe you can find it cheaper on Ebay or so.
http://www.zephyr-technology.com/hxm.html

You can buy it here:
http://www.rungps.net/wiki/Zephyr_HxM_DE

For those of us that are searching a bag to attach their phone to the arm or into a belt this could be helpfull:
http://www.rungps.net/wiki/ShopBeltsDE

MfG
LaurinAurelius

]]> Hello everybody!!

The above solution is not working like I (we) want to...
but there is a new one.

The belt is from Zephyr and it's possible to afford. Maybe you can find it cheaper on Ebay or so.
http://www.zephyr-technology.com/hxm.html

You can buy it here:
http://www.rungps.net/wiki/Zephyr_HxM_DE

For those of us that are searching a bag to attach their phone to the arm or into a belt this could be helpfull:
http://www.rungps.net/wiki/ShopBeltsDE

MfG
LaurinAurelius

]]> http://betalabs.nokia.com/forum/topic/5058#comment-19778 comment Sat, 14 Nov 2009 21:42:54 +0000 http://betalabs.nokia.com/forum/topic/5058#comment-19778 Comment to 'Suggestion: Sports Tracker for S60 5 ed' by gefy You can grab it here:

http://forum.dailymobile.se/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4179.0;attac...

(Don´t know if you must be a member to download it)

]]> You can grab it here:

http://forum.dailymobile.se/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4179.0;attac...

(Don´t know if you must be a member to download it)

]]> http://betalabs.nokia.com/forum/topic/3671#comment-19775 comment Sat, 14 Nov 2009 13:32:34 +0000 http://betalabs.nokia.com/forum/topic/3671#comment-19775 Comment to 'Discussion: v2.05, "Polar for Nokia" accessory compatibility' by mbrett The issue you both have is that the Polar Belt is locked to specific Product Numbers (ie. phone models), specifically the N79 Active. The only way you can get it to play nicely with other phone is to have a special set of files provided by Nokia to link the Polar Belt to your IMEI. This was done for a specific number of winners of a "Track a Heart" competition on the NST website as the runners up prizes were the Polar belts. Others that obtain the belts will NOT be able to link them to their phones without the files being provided from Nokia and this was a one off according to my understanding.

Sorry guys.

mbrett
N97 RM-505 (Product Code: 0585262 (Vodafone UK)) FW 12.0.026
N95 8Gb (Product Code: 0558787 (UK)) FW 31.0.015
http:///www.twitter.com/MartynBrett
http://www.n97geeks.com

]]> The issue you both have is that the Polar Belt is locked to specific Product Numbers (ie. phone models), specifically the N79 Active. The only way you can get it to play nicely with other phone is to have a special set of files provided by Nokia to link the Polar Belt to your IMEI. This was done for a specific number of winners of a "Track a Heart" competition on the NST website as the runners up prizes were the Polar belts. Others that obtain the belts will NOT be able to link them to their phones without the files being provided from Nokia and this was a one off according to my understanding.

Sorry guys.

mbrett
N97 RM-505 (Product Code: 0585262 (Vodafone UK)) FW 12.0.026
N95 8Gb (Product Code: 0558787 (UK)) FW 31.0.015
http:///www.twitter.com/MartynBrett
http://www.n97geeks.com

]]> http://betalabs.nokia.com/forum/topic/1337#comment-19764 comment Fri, 13 Nov 2009 07:44:33 +0000 http://betalabs.nokia.com/forum/topic/1337#comment-19764 Comment to 'Suggestion: Sports Tracker for S60 5 ed' by mbrett The basic history of Sports Tracker for S60v5 devices is that there was a short period where there was a Sports Tracker version readily available on the Sports Tracker website for S60v5 devices, but for an unknown reason it was then pulled off the website. The S60v5 version of teh sofwtare went through three itterations whilst available from the website, before it's disapearance, the latest being v2.06.

All versions are available over at http://dailymobile.se/ May require a bit of searchin, but they are there.

mbrett
N97 RM-505 (Product Code: 0585262 (Vodafone UK)) FW 12.0.026
N95 8Gb (Product Code: 0558787 (UK)) FW 31.0.015
http:///www.twitter.com/MartynBrett
http://www.n97geeks.com

]]> The basic history of Sports Tracker for S60v5 devices is that there was a short period where there was a Sports Tracker version readily available on the Sports Tracker website for S60v5 devices, but for an unknown reason it was then pulled off the website. The S60v5 version of teh sofwtare went through three itterations whilst available from the website, before it's disapearance, the latest being v2.06.

All versions are available over at http://dailymobile.se/ May require a bit of searchin, but they are there.

mbrett
N97 RM-505 (Product Code: 0585262 (Vodafone UK)) FW 12.0.026
N95 8Gb (Product Code: 0558787 (UK)) FW 31.0.015
http:///www.twitter.com/MartynBrett
http://www.n97geeks.com

]]> http://betalabs.nokia.com/forum/topic/3671#comment-19763 comment Fri, 13 Nov 2009 07:40:19 +0000 http://betalabs.nokia.com/forum/topic/3671#comment-19763 Review: *5* Best Nokia App ever by mocoohay I tried many sporttracking products (iPhone/Android/SE).
But ST is simply the best!!
In my view only the GPS filtering should be improved (maybe with post-processing?).
But the big drawback is that Nokia does not want to support it..?
You can't even find on OVI App store.
I think Nokia must be in amazing financal shape to just ingnoring sports-trend.
Even knowing that they where trendsetter in this area (Nokia 5500 and predecessors).
.. yes I know. They want to give it away to Samsung ;-) poor Nokia

]]> http://betalabs.nokia.com/forum/topic/5060 topic Fri, 13 Nov 2009 07:09:34 +0000 http://betalabs.nokia.com/forum/topic/5060 Review: *0* Solution for heartrate counting...maybe by LaurinAurelius Hello everybody!

I found this very interesting Polar website via Google.
German:
http://www.polar-deutschland.de/de/b2b_produkte/team_sports/polar_team2_...

english:
http://www.polarusa.com/us-en/b2b_products/team_sports/polar_team2_pro/p...

Maybe its the solution for all of us missing the heartrate in ST
But there is no info about a price...
I will call Polar tomorow(or write e-mail or both) and than post erverything i will find out here.

Good N8
LaurinAurelius

]]> http://betalabs.nokia.com/forum/topic/5058 topic Thu, 12 Nov 2009 19:27:43 +0000 http://betalabs.nokia.com/forum/topic/5058 Comment to 'Suggestion: Sports Tracker for S60 5 ed' by qwavel When looking for ST for my 5800 I start by going to the ST web site. It is rather confusing that there is no mention of the 5800 there - as if it didn't exist. It took me some bumping around to end up here, and now I find that the situation seems just as confused here.

Please figure out what your plan is for ST on the 5800 and then tell us. And please put the information on the main ST website so that people can find it.

]]> When looking for ST for my 5800 I start by going to the ST web site. It is rather confusing that there is no mention of the 5800 there - as if it didn't exist. It took me some bumping around to end up here, and now I find that the situation seems just as confused here.

Please figure out what your plan is for ST on the 5800 and then tell us. And please put the information on the main ST website so that people can find it.

]]> http://betalabs.nokia.com/forum/topic/3671#comment-19740 comment Wed, 11 Nov 2009 22:11:09 +0000 http://betalabs.nokia.com/forum/topic/3671#comment-19740 Comment to 'Discussion: v2.05, "Polar for Nokia" accessory compatibility' by LaurinAurelius Hi everybody!!

@ DWhittall: What files? Where to download?

Is this www.luxus.fi the Website from the company you are talking about?

MfG LaurinAurelius

]]> Hi everybody!!

@ DWhittall: What files? Where to download?

Is this www.luxus.fi the Website from the company you are talking about?

MfG LaurinAurelius

]]> http://betalabs.nokia.com/forum/topic/1337#comment-19739 comment Wed, 11 Nov 2009 20:47:34 +0000 http://betalabs.nokia.com/forum/topic/1337#comment-19739 Comment to 'Discussion: v2.05, "Polar for Nokia" accessory compatibility' by DWhittall I am a Brit, currently living in the Philippines and own Nokia N95 8GB that I am very pleased with.

Pity the 'Polar' Bluetooth4Nokia not sold separately (and work with Sports Tracker on N95?)

Since Nokia Philippines, only sell N79, not N79AE, and seems neither 'Polar' or 'Nokia' will sell just the 'Bluetooth for Nokia' transmitter, I gave up and bought a Polar F7 Watch (in USA, for $120) that comes with Polar WearLink Belt and T31 Coded Transmitter.

This works with the Gym Equipment, so I can get Cardio Fit and do 'Fat Burn', whilst knowing what my Heart Rate is, and can slow down or stop if it getting too high as advised by my Cardiologist.

All the Data is stored on the F7 Watch, and one can 'upload; via Polar 'Weblink'. This software application, installed on a PC, is set to 'listen' mode, whilst you navigate to the Polar Watch's 'File' Menu, then to 'Send' submenu, and press 'OK' button. The Polar watch, then starts 'chirping' tones, that is picked up by Microphone of PC, t(hat you already held near to Polar Watch, prior to pressing 'OK'). The Polar Weblink shows the progress of the received data via this 'audio' link (takes 30 seconds or so - probably depends how much HRM data?).

Once complete, "1 new file[s] were sent to Polar Personal Trainer. See log file for details." the Polar Weblink, up loads to your enrolled Account @ https://www.polarpersonaltrainer.com/

Would have much preferred using the Bluetooth for Nokia and the Sports Tracker Application and view the data on http://sportstracker.nokia.com/nts/dashboard/index.do

Before I make do with the F7 and Polar webllink, I would consider getting my son, to buy me a Nokia N79 Active, in the UK, to get such 'Polar' Bluetooth4Nokia Transmitter.

Q: Is there any way to obtain, and or modify the correct Sports Tracker software and or 'patches', such that the Heart Rate Monitor function will work on my Nokia N95 8GB?

If the answer to that, is an emphatic 'NO WAY' (unless Nokia are prepared to produce customized version with my IMIE), then I will give up considering such purchase. I could have my son buy it and send the lot, and simply use the N79 when I want to use HRM function. I then have Polar WearLink Chest Belt + Bluetooth Transmitter, and Nokia N79 (and my Nokia N95).

I would rather stick to the Polar T31 Coded transmitter, and buy a'Sensaris' module, that converts T31 to Bluetooth - compatible with many makes/models of Phones.

This is what Michael Setton of Sensaris.com e-mailed me:-

"There is an application to send the heart rate to a distant server and you get to see the heart rate on the phone itself too.We send you a small software program by e mail and you install it on the phone, just like any other application.Then you just click on the mobicardio icon and you are set. It would be easy to write an application so you could indicate your HR Max and there would an alarm going off when you reach 90 %.
At the moment because we are making small quantities, the price for the interface is € 180 but if we can find 100 interested people we could bring it down quite a bit, and of course this is our goal.We want to be able to sell for € 125 by mid 2010 when we will look for investors."

See http://www.mobicardio.net/ for more information.

Nice Solution, apart from the price (but if it saves you the cost of EUR300 to not having to buy an N79, when you don't really want to, could be worth it)!

What I also like is being able to keep Polar T31 coded Transmitter, that works with a lot of Gym equipment also. So you would get to see your BPM readout on the Cardio Equipment as you work out, and see it on your phone via Sensaris T31 to Bluetooth unit, and upload to Mobicardio Website.

]]> I am a Brit, currently living in the Philippines and own Nokia N95 8GB that I am very pleased with.

Pity the 'Polar' Bluetooth4Nokia not sold separately (and work with Sports Tracker on N95?)

Since Nokia Philippines, only sell N79, not N79AE, and seems neither 'Polar' or 'Nokia' will sell just the 'Bluetooth for Nokia' transmitter, I gave up and bought a Polar F7 Watch (in USA, for $120) that comes with Polar WearLink Belt and T31 Coded Transmitter.

This works with the Gym Equipment, so I can get Cardio Fit and do 'Fat Burn', whilst knowing what my Heart Rate is, and can slow down or stop if it getting too high as advised by my Cardiologist.

All the Data is stored on the F7 Watch, and one can 'upload; via Polar 'Weblink'. This software application, installed on a PC, is set to 'listen' mode, whilst you navigate to the Polar Watch's 'File' Menu, then to 'Send' submenu, and press 'OK' button. The Polar watch, then starts 'chirping' tones, that is picked up by Microphone of PC, t(hat you already held near to Polar Watch, prior to pressing 'OK'). The Polar Weblink shows the progress of the received data via this 'audio' link (takes 30 seconds or so - probably depends how much HRM data?).

Once complete, "1 new file[s] were sent to Polar Personal Trainer. See log file for details." the Polar Weblink, up loads to your enrolled Account @ https://www.polarpersonaltrainer.com/

Would have much preferred using the Bluetooth for Nokia and the Sports Tracker Application and view the data on http://sportstracker.nokia.com/nts/dashboard/index.do

Before I make do with the F7 and Polar webllink, I would consider getting my son, to buy me a Nokia N79 Active, in the UK, to get such 'Polar' Bluetooth4Nokia Transmitter.

Q: Is there any way to obtain, and or modify the correct Sports Tracker software and or 'patches', such that the Heart Rate Monitor function will work on my Nokia N95 8GB?

If the answer to that, is an emphatic 'NO WAY' (unless Nokia are prepared to produce customized version with my IMIE), then I will give up considering such purchase. I could have my son buy it and send the lot, and simply use the N79 when I want to use HRM function. I then have Polar WearLink Chest Belt + Bluetooth Transmitter, and Nokia N79 (and my Nokia N95).

I would rather stick to the Polar T31 Coded transmitter, and buy a'Sensaris' module, that converts T31 to Bluetooth - compatible with many makes/models of Phones.

This is what Michael Setton of Sensaris.com e-mailed me:-

"There is an application to send the heart rate to a distant server and you get to see the heart rate on the phone itself too.We send you a small software program by e mail and you install it on the phone, just like any other application.Then you just click on the mobicardio icon and you are set. It would be easy to write an application so you could indicate your HR Max and there would an alarm going off when you reach 90 %.
At the moment because we are making small quantities, the price for the interface is € 180 but if we can find 100 interested people we could bring it down quite a bit, and of course this is our goal.We want to be able to sell for € 125 by mid 2010 when we will look for investors."

See http://www.mobicardio.net/ for more information.

Nice Solution, apart from the price (but if it saves you the cost of EUR300 to not having to buy an N79, when you don't really want to, could be worth it)!

What I also like is being able to keep Polar T31 coded Transmitter, that works with a lot of Gym equipment also. So you would get to see your BPM readout on the Cardio Equipment as you work out, and see it on your phone via Sensaris T31 to Bluetooth unit, and upload to Mobicardio Website.

]]> http://betalabs.nokia.com/forum/topic/1337#comment-19688 comment Mon, 09 Nov 2009 13:29:56 +0000 http://betalabs.nokia.com/forum/topic/1337#comment-19688 Comment to 'Discussion: v2.05, "Polar for Nokia" accessory compatibility' by DWhittall Both 'S81' and 'hugovk' mention these 2 x Files, to install on Nokia to get Sports Tracker working with Polar Bluetoofh for Nokia pairing.

Just wondering if either of you guys could make these 2 x Files for such Installation available somehow? I am willing to buy an 'N79 Active', if it will certainly work on Nokia N95 also

(I will let my son have the N79, if I can be sure of it works on N95 with the WearLink Bluetooth Module)

Cheers,

David

Tue, 2009-06-09 13:51 S81: It's work fine !
S81
Hello
This morning the girl from Nokia sent me 2 files for install the Heart Rate Belt.
In fact it's a sort of patch and the second file is the install file for Nokia Sport Tracker

Wed, 2009-06-17 06:21 hugovk: I also won a belt in the
hugovk
I also won a belt in the Track a Heart competition, and finally got the installation package from Luxus the same day as S81 and have now got it working on my N95 8GB :)
There are two installation packages, first a CertProvisioner installer which I presume will limit Sports Tracker only to certain IMEIs. And second, a Sports Tracker 2.06 sis file. This has the Heart Rate Wizard, and I've got them paired and it counting heart beats.

]]> Both 'S81' and 'hugovk' mention these 2 x Files, to install on Nokia to get Sports Tracker working with Polar Bluetoofh for Nokia pairing.

Just wondering if either of you guys could make these 2 x Files for such Installation available somehow? I am willing to buy an 'N79 Active', if it will certainly work on Nokia N95 also

(I will let my son have the N79, if I can be sure of it works on N95 with the WearLink Bluetooth Module)

Cheers,

David

Tue, 2009-06-09 13:51 S81: It's work fine !
S81
Hello
This morning the girl from Nokia sent me 2 files for install the Heart Rate Belt.
In fact it's a sort of patch and the second file is the install file for Nokia Sport Tracker

Wed, 2009-06-17 06:21 hugovk: I also won a belt in the
hugovk
I also won a belt in the Track a Heart competition, and finally got the installation package from Luxus the same day as S81 and have now got it working on my N95 8GB :)
There are two installation packages, first a CertProvisioner installer which I presume will limit Sports Tracker only to certain IMEIs. And second, a Sports Tracker 2.06 sis file. This has the Heart Rate Wizard, and I've got them paired and it counting heart beats.

]]> http://betalabs.nokia.com/forum/topic/1337#comment-19690 comment Mon, 09 Nov 2009 13:21:42 +0000 http://betalabs.nokia.com/forum/topic/1337#comment-19690 Comment to 'Discussion: 5800 doesnt upload workout to the Nokia Sports Tracker web service' by hantap I solved problem. I had to make new account in my mobile phone. I use ST version 2.06. I havent done any account yet. Silly me. I just expected that phonenumber enough.

NST is Great web service!

Good training days to all.

]]> I solved problem. I had to make new account in my mobile phone. I use ST version 2.06. I havent done any account yet. Silly me. I just expected that phonenumber enough.

NST is Great web service!

Good training days to all.

]]> http://betalabs.nokia.com/forum/topic/4985#comment-19666 comment Fri, 06 Nov 2009 19:33:04 +0000 http://betalabs.nokia.com/forum/topic/4985#comment-19666 Comment to 'Discussion: 5800 doesnt upload workout to the Nokia Sports Tracker web service' by hantap Hi.
Thanks for your answers.
npais2706 can you tell me what did you mean by "access point"? I send data by wlan.
And can you tell me how did you make your nokia account in the Nokia Sports Tracker web site? I mean how is possible that the web service can receive data from 5800 phone? I have naturally make Nokia account but I just dont understand how the connection works with web service and phone. Is the telephonenumber the only key? Sorry if I have silly questions..

]]> Hi.
Thanks for your answers.
npais2706 can you tell me what did you mean by "access point"? I send data by wlan.
And can you tell me how did you make your nokia account in the Nokia Sports Tracker web site? I mean how is possible that the web service can receive data from 5800 phone? I have naturally make Nokia account but I just dont understand how the connection works with web service and phone. Is the telephonenumber the only key? Sorry if I have silly questions..

]]> http://betalabs.nokia.com/forum/topic/4985#comment-19664 comment Fri, 06 Nov 2009 17:36:31 +0000 http://betalabs.nokia.com/forum/topic/4985#comment-19664 Comment to 'Discussion: 5800 doesnt upload workout to the Nokia Sports Tracker web service' by npais2706 I am using my Nokia 5800 XM with NST 2.05 on a daily basis and I can successfully get my workouts uploaded to NST website.
Just make sure that in Settings > General Setting you defined the correct access point. Once you are online, you may open a workout from your "Training Diary" and under "Options" you can select: "Upload to service".
Perhaps you guys are proceeding this way. Otherwise, I hope it helps.
Good workouts for you all...

]]> I am using my Nokia 5800 XM with NST 2.05 on a daily basis and I can successfully get my workouts uploaded to NST website.
Just make sure that in Settings > General Setting you defined the correct access point. Once you are online, you may open a workout from your "Training Diary" and under "Options" you can select: "Upload to service".
Perhaps you guys are proceeding this way. Otherwise, I hope it helps.
Good workouts for you all...

]]> http://betalabs.nokia.com/forum/topic/4985#comment-19656 comment Fri, 06 Nov 2009 13:12:04 +0000 http://betalabs.nokia.com/forum/topic/4985#comment-19656