Nokia Betalabs

When we have the ability to filter the catalog and downloads according to the device(s) you own, that should hopefully prevent some of the erroneous downloads and related requests. However, that does nothing for requests about future compatibility, and I wonder whether any kind of feature would actually help here without increasing the hurdles to participating.

At this point I see moderation as the most effective way to handle this. And it is possible to create a group under each forum for "device compatibility" if that's what is needed.

John - Community Facilitator @ Beta Labs
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The problem I am seeing presently with the moderation route is that when everyone is listing their phone model specificatlly rather than S60v3, S60v3.1, S60v3.2, S60v5 or in some cases S40 moderators have to keep visiting http://forum.nokia.com to gain the device information to be able to cluster the posts into grouping via OS version.

Having a separate "Device Compatability" sub-forum at least gives the moderators somewhere to move them without having to spend so much time clustering them.

At the end of the day "What about my phone?", etc. phone do not provided as much earned value to the Beta teams as real Bug Reports & Suggestions in my opinion.

On the installing on non-compatible phones maybe some sort of statement has to be made on each download page in red right nedt to the download links that installing the Apps on unlisted phones is done at the users risk (even more than installing beta sofwtare in the first place). People need to accept that if they do manae to install an app that is not listed as compatible it may not be compatible.

mbrett
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I say slap all the posts together and forget about them. Not the right thing though but.....

@snowy: Know what you mean. That's why I suggest a "Device Compatability" sub-forum to place them all in.

mbrett
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Just had a chat about this here. If we create a sub-forum or category for "device compatibility" then we need to make at least one other called "General" for all the other stuff, which I think would add another unnecessary layer to the forums.

What about if we instead created a thread called "device compatibility" and then joined all related threads to that? It would basically achieve the same thing. And we could make it sticky if we wanted to proactively point people there to make device requests or we could let it fall down naturally in the list as long as all moderators know that it's there.

Thoughts?

John - Community Facilitator @ Beta Labs
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Is there any way that you can create a single forum post and then have it show in all forums for a single application. i.e. Have a thread in one forum and have a stocky shortcut to it at the top of each of the other forums for that application so that there is only one thread, but no matter which forum it the user is in they will see it at the top.

Saves the user needing to be in the right fofum to see it.

Is this possible with your development environment?

mbrett
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Hi Martyn

I know exactly what you mean - I think it has got worse since the new free navigation announcement by nokia. I bet its in all nokia forums at the moment.

To the beta labs guys - I hope peoples sentements as regarding this issue are passed to the Nokia heirachy - I can see this becoming the next n-gage N73/N93 fiasco if nokia does not make some kind of official statement on their old devices. And post that statement on all their websites/forums.

That alone would solve one issue. As regards the other I think a single sticky thread in each category. So one for each application where people can post regrading their unsupported device then we as moderators can dump all those posts by people who ignore it. I know that would make my life easier

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@mbrett - At the moment, no. Each thread needs to be assigned to only one feedback type. For now I can just make a post in each forum though to get around that.

@sheridan01 - We'll do what we can to get some clarification.

Thanks, guys.

John - Community Facilitator @ Beta Labs
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Morning John,

Maybe it could be a mix. There could be a sticky thread posted in each forum/sub-forum to tell users, but we then have a single repository thread per application where all "Device Compatibility" posts joined to. This may make it easier for moderators.

What are your thoughts?

mbrett
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Here's the first example: https://betalabs.nokia.com/apps/gig-finder/discussion/7194/device-compat...

After further discussion here, we propose making a single thread under Discussion for each app (instead of multiple threads) while we test this method out.

And in the meantime we may try to make it possible to convert this thread from a regular sticky to "announcement" which would make it appear across the four forum types without any extra work.

John - Community Facilitator @ Beta Labs
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Thanks John.

Let's see how people respond.

May be worth rolling this out to something like OVI Maps as you will probably get more response there as there are a lot more users in that forum.

mbrett
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Since Maps is using groups already, I made one there for Device Compatibility under Suggestions. I think groups work better than joining threads, but they only make sense when other groups are needed.

http://betalabs.nokia.com/apps/ovi-maps-beta-for-mobile/suggestion/group...

John - Community Facilitator @ Beta Labs
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That should help with the clutter.

John

After looking at the maps group I see a major issue with the grouping option. For moderating we need to use the "Show All Posts" option and this does not show which group a thread is in.

Having the Compatability threads in groups leaves us with the same clutter as they still clog up the "Show All Posts" view. At least "Joining" them all means there is just one thread showing in the "Show All Posts" view. Therefor clutter reduced.

Any thoughts.

mbrett
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Hmmm...this is proving to be a very challenging problem to solve since we are trying to balance the needs of contributors, moderators, and development teams. Welcome to our world :)

John - Community Facilitator @ Beta Labs
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Mbrett what about leaving an icon near the post when selected show all post like in the old forum where icon is a big, suggestion and so on.

Being in engineering, I completely understand. Many solutions can cause interesting ripple and the true effects can often only be seen after the fact.

It all makes life fun. Just as you think it's sorted another effect appears. ;-)

mbrett
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I think I am bit late for this but I just thought if I may just chip in a bit. In fact what i feel was somewhat mentioned in some of the post. and while all commented are very true but I believe therer is this trigger point which I thought if i may just share little more how i feel. For long, I've all time treated this a beta site for innovation which I happily and willingly enjoyed / struggled thru all the apps. But my great disappointment came after the huge fanfare on the pre-nokia navigation announcement. It is huge let down. and it may be called "worldwide" but how many in nokia user actually benefited? Perhaps this involves a nokia's intention which we didn't get it right or mis understood(which I thought Nokia could have handled this better). So while those holding supported phone are cheering, it is bitter(or may even felt betrayed ) to many of us with non supported model.
And how does this got to do with beta lab, to me it is because MAPS is entirely still here in beta(perhaps 3.0 which supported most model should graduate and continue to made available and 3.03 remain here? I don't know) . And I believe this where the frustration will go and
overflow. and I guess all eyes will still be watching on
when will the 'more model to be supported' be realised.

so when all measures done and the fire subside, i am hopeful that lets (and nokia) make this beta lab a beta lab. and I strongly believe betalab is a great place to groom killer apps.
thanks.

Hi kj

Firstly I doubt nokia will expend energy trying to get 3.03 to work on older devices.

Secondly Nokia have reduced the price of navigation on all devices not supported by 3.03 to around 10 euros (price of two coffees and a cake)

Thirdly The 3.03 is not a beta anymore. Its publically released. the beta here is 3.04 and the point is not to make it backwards compatible but better (not worse).

N97 mini RM-555 FW V11
N97 RM-507 FW V21
N900 V1.2009.42-11
N95 8Gb RM-421 V31.2.008
and too many more to mention in a signature + 21 other devices

Http://www.twitter.com/sheridan01

off-topic, but thanks @sheridan01 for the note on the price - notifying all my pre 3.03 friends so they consider buying navigation for 1yr
---------------------------------------------------
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N95-3 / 0551733 / FW 35.2.001
-
MacBook Unibody - OSX 10.6 - iLife '09

@kj1991: To be honest I understand people pain about the limited release of the free navigation., but that was supplied as a public and not Beta Release via v3.03 in February when it graduated from the Beta Labs. The present version in the Beta Labs is v3.04.

As Sheridan01 stated in his post Nokia have tried to quash the flames somewhat with unsupported phone users by reducing the price of 1 year's licence for a continent to 10 EUROs. I realise it is not Free still to those users, but I beleive Nokia are focussing wrongly or rightly on future models, which means they may be hard at workl developng OVI Maps for Symbian^3.

I believe that although the license is not free for phone unsupported by v3.03 and v3.04 it is well worth the 10 EURO annual cost.

Anyhow, I still don't beleive the Beta Labs is the place for this kind of discussion. That is what the Nokia Discussion Forums are there for.

All we are saying is that we want the Beta Labs to be about testing and improving Beta Apps prior to their graduation as Production Apps or incorporation into future firmware and not diluted by questions/complaints about devices that are not listed as supported.

mbrett
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Hi Sharidan and mbrett, understand and thanks.

Apologies in advance, haven't read all the posts in detail so this may already have been mentioned!
OVI and the beta labs areas are using a single sign on mechanism so it is quite easy for OVI users to 'accidently' end up posting on the beta labs forums (as I accidently did a moment ago in my wifes name!). Whilst I would want to get rid of the single sign-in (I want to limit the number of brain cells used for remembering passwords) maybe OVI account users should sign up for the beta labs service and explain what it is (in non techy terms) before joining the wonderful world of beta s/w, forums, bugs etc..

Having given iut a little time, I thought I post on this again. The new'ish "Device compatibility" section in the "Suggestions" area of the "Ovi Maps Beta for mobile" Forum has helped move the "What about my device?" and "Why don't all devices get free Nav.?" questions from clogging up the real Beta testing posts, but more is needed.

These posts still bulk out the unread posts meanign that you have to go though loads of "What about my device?" and "Why don't all devices get free Nav.?" questions to find the few actual Beta testing related posts to find those that really need to be heard.

In some ways the lump them into a single thread approach would at least clean up the unread posts list. I must admit the Beta Labs forms are about the most open I have seen as the kind of behaviour I have seen from many with these posts would have bee repremanded and posts would have been locked by now.

I come to the Beta Labs to test apps and services, gain help from other when needed and try to help other where I can. Complaining about lack of support does not help the community in my opinion.

Still drowning in my opinion.

mbrett
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Totally agree with you Martyn - and to be honest I was thinking about taking the law into my own hands and lumping all the what about my device posts together. Also thinking of doing the same in each and every forum so each forum has a what about device thread - just one and thats it.

N97 mini RM-555 FW V11
N97 RM-507 FW V21
N900 V1.2009.42-11
N95 8Gb RM-421 V31.2.008
and too many more to mention in a signature + 21 other devices

Http://www.twitter.com/sheridan01

That makes two of us, but trying to be a good boy and let John and Ilkka decied on the way forward as we are just the hired (free of charge) help after all. ;-)

mbrett
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<strong>If you find a post helpful give it a thumbs up.</strong>

Thanks for pushing on this issue.

You have our blessing to lump all device compatibility posts to one thread in the Device Compatibility group on the Ovi Maps for mobile forum. I made a sticky post to explain why we're doing this. Feel free to moderate the other posts under it.

https://betalabs.nokia.com/apps/ovi-maps-beta-for-mobile/suggestion/7997...

That should clean up everyone's My Feed and list of unread posts.

I'll notify Kee as well.

John - Community Facilitator @ Beta Labs
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Before I start, you are saying we can "Join" all threads in the device compatabily Group to the end of the sticky post you just created.

Just checking.

Can we do this in other forums too. i.e. Copy and paste your words into an initial Post and then "Join" other "Device Compatability" posts on the end end of that one. Maps has the most, but some other forums are not short of similar "Device Compatability" posts.

Thanks

mbrett
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Yes, the correct action is "Join (is a duplicate)".

For other apps, I'll try to do the same thing in those forums that have a significant amount of these posts. If there aren't many, though, then I'll leave it as is. Tell me if I miss any.

John - Community Facilitator @ Beta Labs
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OK will do and thanks. :-)

mbrett
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@markow76 - Sorry to say that the first "Join" seems to have broken the system.

I joined

http://betalabs.nokia.com/apps/ovi-maps-beta-for-mobile/suggestion/6742/...

to Your Post

http://betalabs.nokia.com/apps/ovi-maps-beta-for-mobile/suggestion/7997/...

"s60-3-1-devices-support" had 124 Comments and your thread only had your original post in it. As you can see You thread (all-posts-about-device-compatibility-and-availablility) now lists as 308 comments and iff you serach for "apurvgupta1", whio made the original post on "s60-3-1-devices-support" and did not post again you will see it's messed up and his post along with others keeps repeating.

The original "s60-3-1-devices-support" thread is still accessable too.

Needs looking at. Won't try "Joining" any more to it until this has been resolved.

Any ideas??

Maybe something broke because of the number of posts being joined in one go.

mbrett
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We'll need to take a look.

Being able to see moderated threads is expected (when logged in), but the other behavior is not.

John

Normally when a thead has been hiden or joined the original thread is no longer visible to the likes of Moderator and general users, from my experience, but I can still see the original thread, which makes that also unexpected to me.

Will hold off the joining excercicein the Maps forum until this has been sorted.

mbrett
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@markow76: Have linked all of the Maps "Device Compatability" posts onto one new (TEMP) post while your original one is recovering in Thread A & E.

All posts about device compatibility and availablility (TEMP)

http://betalabs.nokia.com/apps/ovi-maps-beta-for-mobile/suggestion/8017/...

That's much tidier now. Doesn't a nice spring clean feel good. :-)

mbrett
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Now they're taking over the blog comments too:

http://betalabs.nokia.com/blog/2010/03/26/introducing-nokia-bots-add-ons...

:-(

mbrett
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