Nokia Betalabs

Perhaps there would eb something in the PoI's (with the firm's little icon)
tho if I'm that desperate for overpriced coffee I'll swype starbucks into the search box

I can live with the small add banner at the top of the weather app, provided the apps are tasteful, and perhaps location specific, ie if my local starbucks was offering 2:1 on coffee with an e-voucher I could live with that,

Then again why not go further, have a location based service where buisness's with ongoing promotions are shown

We do not stop playing because we grow old
We grow old because we stop playing

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If Nokia wants to force all the users to see the Advertisements then I have no issues to see those poping banners.. But first at least they should give us what we want before we start loosing interest in the app. Thank god it is possible to uninstall Weather App.

well theres are always two sides:

customers und advertisers. but in the end everybody is both. just imagine your own store or soccer club being linked in ovi maps!

at google (e.g. maps, search) its just normal to have advertisement, why the seemingly marketleader in search, ('free') maps/navigation and advertising may have advertisement in the portfolio, while nokia doesnt? google is so big, because you dont wanna miss their service which includes advertising!
this is just childish argumenting from guys who dont know how business is running.

if an ad really gives me a benefit, i would rather like to have it than to not having it ;)

as tracy_rolling said, its not about makin ad banners, but to integrate ads in a genuine and profiting way for both sides: the customers and the advertisers

I would agree with tracy_rolling IF Nokia Maps was an extra download app. But Nokia Maps is offered by Nokia itself as a FREE app. It's even pre-installed (at least on my C6-01) on Nokia phones!? It's just like Tsilvan said before me.
But money keeps on being more important I guess: I mean, the almost forced upon us app Micro$oft Communicator (totally useless for the majority of mobile phone users) is also such an example I guess. Probably part of the Nokia/Micro$oft deal to make that an "important" update in Symbian Anna.

I guess none of us like adverts, but if that is really the only way to finance them - I'd settle for something as small as the one on Weather, as long as development continues and it remains free.

I do agree that it would be unacceptable in the Driving part of Maps.

To meegja, I have to say - if you don't want Communicator, it takes seconds to remove the widget from the home screen!

@ajleach Communicator is also integrated into contacts app :/ ... when U uninstall it Ur phone will show very annoying notice about important update. Only way is disabling automatic checking of updates.

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@tsilvan

You said what I wanted to say. But still I do not mind to use the app with the Advertisements bombardments on screen only if the Application is made with some sense and no nonsense like today we have Three official Weather Applications on the phone.. And all of them give same results.. ( Thanks god they don't give very different results to confuse which one to trust)

And it is not FREE at all to get UNWANTED Business related Advertisements. .. I paid for my E-7 only for the OVI Maps application. So practically i have paid a bomb for OVI maps Navigation application.. My Bro gifted me iPhone 4G but i gave it to my wife.. I have to carry one office Blackberry Bold 3 all the time as I can not miss any office mail. apart from that I paid for E7 only for the Navigation experience on Big Screen. So at least I dont deserve to get bombard by UNWANTED, DISTRACTING AND ANNOYING BUSINESS Advertisements. (Or there should be an Option in Setting called Useful Business Advert On/ Off)

Meegia, even I havent got the exact use of Micro$oft Communicator
ajleash, Even If we remove the Micro$oft Communicator then again we get Anna Update in two parts and after installing it we come to know it was the same Micro$oft Communicator which we uninstalled yesterday. what about that?

Thank you guys for all the feedback and ideas about this topic. Advertising is going to be an important part of location-based services, no matter where they come from (Nokia, Google, or other). The trick is to do it intelligently so that it's useful instead of being a nuisance.

I don't remember who said that Google maps doesn't have ads. I look at Google Maps on Android all the time (competitive analysis) and my Google app is chock full of ads. Way too much! We want to do better, and all of your ideas on how to do that are interesting.

@ tracy_rolling: totally agree (again) with Tsilvan: only thing to do then it to make the Weather app a totally separate app, not connected with Maps at all. For me too 1 of the reasons to get my phone was the Free Forever maps. Nokia customers will feel let down (to put it very polite) if suddenly there will be adverts in a part of Maps.

@ ajleach: I know that the widget can be removed. But my point is that Nokia is kind of forcing that useless app upon us by making it an important app. Indeed, if you have set automatic updates on your phone and remove Communicator, the phone keeps on saying then that there is an important update. But Communicator is not important at all. It's only usefull in a business environment where there is a MS based server with a account there. And how much users will have that? Maybe 20% of the Anna users (probably less)?

=========================================
It's My Tail And I'll Chase It If I Want To

I think that one shift in paradigm that will take some time for our long-time loyal users to get used to is that Nokia Map apps is not primarily a navigation software product anymore. It is a location-based services provider. Even if a new app isn't built to please drivers, it might still make sense as a Maps app. That doesn't mean that navigation isn't important anymore. We have that in our roots and we will keep working there, but location-based services are a lot more than getting from A to B.

Also, having ad content does not make your application not free. Nobody says that gmail is not free, but it's full of ads. Like I said, I also do not want banner ads stuck here and there in my apps. I think that banner ads are not effective, ugly, and annoying. There have to be better ways to do it.

But google doesn´t say- "hey there is gmail, forever free, when U´ll buy our device".

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You do not pay for Gmail account or Google account service.. They can force you to see the ads.. But here you pay a bomb for a Nokia phone which has got Navigation Application..

tracy .. i really appreciate that you stay with us, although the wind blow a bit in your face here.

two things make me worry for nokia in general:

Attitude:
a) " one shift in paradigm that will take some time for our long-time loyal users to get used to "
..why do we need to get used to something, shouldnt you rather adapt to what the users want?

Only apple can dictate their users the terms, and get away with it. Nokia is currently not in the position.

b) constant references to google make me think, there is a believe that they are cool, and nokia should just become like them.

Let me make this clear, we are here with you engaged in this discussion
because we actually love nokia, we care about you and our devices -
and we dont want to be with google, or anyone who does it like google.
(cheap quality devices, millions of "fart apps", ads around every corner etc)

One way how nokia positively differentiated in the past.., basically 'things nokia did right' so to speak,
was the fact nokia did _not_ spam the users with unwanted informations. (the very definition of any add from users point of view)

Us, not beeing marketing people - cannot be impressed with buzzwords such as "location based services"

--
Only a real "win win" situation could generate the necessary acceptance - that is if a user actually polls information, and explicitly asks to know where a shop, hotel, etc is Anything shown or displayed,
or voiced but not asked for is a nuisance - and will always be one.

I have no illusions, i am certain the decision is not influencable by a couple of betatesters.
So i rest my case, and look forward to what the maps team comes up with that will both keep existing customers loyal (and make them buy the next phone from nokia) - and add new customers as well as revenue by ads.

Not an easy path, quadratur des kreises would i say if i was german.

@ Tracy Rolling

How about this then: leave the Weather part as it is right now like in Maps 3.06 but call it Weather Lite in Maps 3.08.
Make something like Weather Pro and make that a separate app. Then make that Weather Pro available in both Ovi Store but also as an option in Weather Lite menu to upgrade. Since the "price" for Weather Pro are only the ads, many people will go to Weather Pro because it doesn't cost anything.
Just a thought :)

=========================================
It's My Tail And I'll Chase It If I Want To

I can't see any advertising in the weather app. but don't tell anyone as it may be a bug...

Interesting discussion. What I'm surprised at is, although I generally hate the idea of in-app advertising, I really don't mind what I see in the weather app very much. It's quite tastefully done, not jarring like most of the inserted inneractive ads I've seen. It managed to come up with locally-relevant ads some of the time, which is interesting even if I'm not exactly drawn by a discounted hotdog at a nearby gas station. If this were a model of ad-supported apps in general (ie, not necessarily Nokia apps), this looks like a big improvement over what I've seen elsewhere.

I'd hate to see the core navigation and mapping function of Maps get lost in the mist of location-based services though. The basic mapping is probably what draws a lot of people to the software, the other location-based stuff all seems a bit nebulous to me, and not plainly and honestly useful in the same way as maps.

If Nokia thinks all Nokia user will find advertising helpful they should at least keep a way to switch it off for those who think it is rather annoying than helpful.

@tracy-rolling:

"I think that one shift in paradigm that will take some time for our long-time loyal users to get used to is that Nokia Map apps is not primarily a navigation software product anymore. "

So you are going to offer something else if I want a navigation software? Or at least promise that the navigation part will remain ad-free?
Probably I am old fashioned, but I still think a map is something to get from A to B, primarily. If you want to do something else, don't call it a map.

"It is a location-based services provider. Even if a new app isn't built to please drivers, it might still make sense as a Maps app. That doesn't mean that navigation isn't important anymore. We have that in our roots and we will keep working there, but location-based services are a lot more than getting from A to B."

Agree - but shifting from navigation to location based service does not mean you have to place advertising. If you think that's all you have to do, I might think I should go somewhere else.

"Also, having ad content does not make your application not free."

Of course it does - you have to pay the traffc and, more important - it takes time for checking that this is nothing you want to know.

Perhaps they can go back to a paid for maps service without adds,
Then again there are already adds in the current maps app, or what do you think all those results that come up in the what's on and city guides are.
Many of those listings have after all been paid for,

So long as the core navigation and maps features remains add free I don't see that a small banner add in the ancillary weather app is such an issue, provided the adds are appropriate

We do not stop playing because we grow old
We grow old because we stop playing

I "fixed" my problem with ads in the Weather App. I deleted the App.
I will aggressively delete any application that puts ads on the tiny limited space of MY (bought and paid-for, un-branded, unlocked C6-01) smartphone.
If this practice is counter to the new way Nokia wants to do things, then they will drive me away from their products.
Nokia, I selected your phone for the very reason of no advertisements in the core applications. If you want to include ads in your offerings, then provide a way to opt-out for the user. Advertisements are annoying and consume data resources. Advertisements are like fishing with dynamite, you blast away hoping something floats to the surface with no regard for the user environment you are destroying.

Looks like its time to say good bye to Nokia

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Ok.. I will see the ads even if I hate to see adverts in the app but please remove too much black space and make it perfect.. (in horizontal and vertical view both)

I can see many new 3D buildings on my city maps. But funny thing is in "Just Drive", the buildings become transparent unnecessary .. and funny thing is while navigating, you cant see the landmark buildings at all.. :-) I really love the developers for this.. When someone need to see the famous landmarks on the map while navigating, the landmarks get disappeared from the screen. and you can see it only when you are at home and browsing the map.

I am not going to create a new thread in SUGGESTIONS section about this funny thing.. I am already feeling like a fool suggesting new things.

I totally agree with the majority here. Adding ads in Nokia apps is the wrong path.

I don't mind if you put ads in your future Win-Phones because I'm not going to buy one. But don't do this on Symbian devices and the N9.

@tracy rolling

If I use gmail using a mail client, there's NO AD at all. I have a choice and I'm free not to use the web service. Do I have this choice with Nokia Maps related software as well?

Edit: Apart from that, I just logged in to gmail via my browser and what do I see there? Not a single ad. What's wrong there?

Wow, I did not expect anybody to fall in love with the ad banners but I'm a little surprised how bad they really are for most of you. Well, the reason why we display advertisement in the weather application is that the data obviously has not been created by us.

Anyhow, your feedback is taken. We understand we have to do some homework...

I just get a test banner at present, would rather see it go away than it be there but not a big deal.

Here's a suggestion - when I go to the zoo, or a theme-park, etc. then offer me vouchers! When I go to a supermarket then let me view their catalogue!

I like ads if they are done right. E.g. if they are meaningful/relevant for me, and if I don't have to exit the current app to view them. The multi-tasking on Symbian does the second part of that well, I can load an advert webpage in the background and check it out later.
I like checking out some of the ads that are in some of the apps in my phone, and I click on online ads every so-often when browsing.

Nokia N8 FW 022.014.C14.01

Weather is really a separate application. I have not been able to find a link between Maps and Weather other than them being in the same installer (for no obvious reason). So the solution is easy: make Weather a completely separate application, ad-enabled, so that people who really do not like ad-enabled apps (such as the majority of the people in this thread, including me) can happily not download it. And keep Maps free from ads. The Nokia strategy was to offer free Maps with free navigation as an extra selling point for the (expensive) smartphones. That appealed to me, and that is why I bought a Nokia smartphone. So Nokia, keep your promise, keep Maps and navigation free. And remember that adware is not freeware.

How can users of this beta version of maps, easily uninstall v3.08 and go back to maps 3.6 ?
TBH so far it isn't great and what ever happen to the Satellite view ???? where you can see the roof tops and real street view !!
The weather app is fun in the beta version, but not really used.

For the banner ads hmmm not sure what is going on there. Any NOKIA owned app/widget should be 100% free, after all, these free embedded or downloadable after sale updates (apps/widgets) are the key selling points of these NOKIA phones.
3rd party apps is another story of course.

Side note: ATM, this version of NOKIA Maps, has a lot of potential.

I don't like the advertisement either. I reather buy another app for 1-2 Euros in Ovistore than to wait for ads to load and have them clutter my screen.

So I had an idea about this advertising.
If
1) You have stopped driving (0-kph)
2) Maps detects you are in a carpark of a supermarket, etc (as carparks are often mapped in maps anyway)

Then replace the Speed and the Time section with an adv/voucher/brochure of the place!!!

If I want then I could tap on the adv. Or I could continue doing what I normally do and tap the triple-lines and hit exit.

I always drive in Drive mode anyway (for speed limit alerts). So I will get the ads.

Nokia N8 FW 022.014.C14.01

CLTScharz, great idea... so i stop buy at some place because i want to have a phone call, or need to reorientate - and then my phone becomes an own life, and instead driving instructions i get ads. Brilliant.

The moment adds show up in relation with navigation software, i will stop using it. Fortunately my car has a built in alternative.

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So to avoid Adds you need to keep moving?? lol.. and what about stopping on the Red Signal.. The app will recognize that I have entered the Mall and will start flashing offers of products 30% off???? It will be mess I think

In weather Apps it is ok but while navigating it is complete No No.
Even I have Nuvi 255W which is always at the right corner below the steering.

Nah guys! You have to be in a car park! It would only work at locations with large car parks, like shopping centres, zoos, museums, theme parks etc and I realize not everywhere has areas like that.

Practically it may not work but it was the easiest way I could think of for me as a user to get access to special offers. I read that foursquare does the same thing but I can't be bothered opening an app and checking in when I get to a shop just to see if some sort of special offer is there.

Do you need to see that you are going 0kmh when you are stopped in a car park? or need to see 0 Kmh to orient yourself? Would you even see it if you were making a phone call?

@Nitinule I get the point about "flashing lights" and that would ruin the GUI for sure, adding animation eats up the phone battery anyway so I'm guessing the ad would be a simple pic like it is in the weather app.

The maps team probably would make it a user option since it uses data.

Nokia N8 FW 022.014.C14.01

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I dont know if your country but there is a Nokia Maps Built In application called Snapdeals in my country. It is in Guides. It gives the best offers running in the stores near you. I do not want the same thing again on Navigation screen. it will become same like we have Three Official Weather apps on the phone right now. want to get few new and useful things instead of getting same things in different layout with some powerpoint effects.

http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/4236/10512299.jpg

http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/3081/27971903.jpg

"Well, the reason why we display advertisement in the weather application is that the data obviously has not been created by us".

@antje So what you saying is that this Weather app is not a Nokia feature but private developer project??

João Luis Costa
Twitter: @joaoluisc

@Nitinule No we don't have that here!

Nokia N8 FW 022.014.C14.01

NO TO ADS! i paid for this software (nokia told me FREE navigation, but i dont have an dataflaterate, so its NOT free for me)

I love my n8, and symbian - especially belle. but because of this and the fact that nokia will go to windowsphones, ill leve nokia in some months and go to htc, wich are using AN AD FREE android!

Err no you didn't
Maps 3.06 is the version that ships with your N8
that version is add free

3.08 and the weather app with the offending banner is a Beta that nokia are generously letting you trial

We do not stop playing because we grow old
We grow old because we stop playing

Moderator joined from <a href="/apps/ovi-maps-for-mobile-v3-08">Nokia Maps v3.08 with Weather</a>/<a href="/apps/ovi-maps-for-mobile-v3-08/suggestion">Suggestions</a>/<a href="/apps/ovi-maps-for-mobile-v3-08/suggestion/group/weather-app-feedback">Weather App feedback</a>/No adverts required with the weather!

The weather is a great addition, but please remove the adverts! You are Nokia, you do not need to include adverts with the weather! I almost feel like I have to buy the 'full' application to get rid of them! At least have it that if you view the advert it then goes away. Good work. No weather widget?

I am with jlscott777. Live with it!

Good grief some people will complain about anything, get over it, the app is free.

James L. Scott

Society has conditioned people to accept their conditions and "just live with it" or to see any negative opinion as "bad".
This thread is by, of and about people not wishing to see advertisements in a program they perceive as not needing or deserving of their tolerance of advertisements.
Posting a "just live with it" or the "app is free" line-of-thinking/justification to tolerate advertisements does not help the discussion in any way at all.
Try posting a comment such as "I don't find the ads to be distracting considering the cost of the software" or "many things I encounter are not as much trouble for me as it seems for other people".
These kinds of comments are acceptable in a thread like this.
The other kinds are just flame-bait.

The 'software' is free. Nokia are not a charity so have to pay for your free stuff somehow. If you dont like the ads then just don't use it.

If anything the advertisements are actually interesting seeing as how they seem to be based on your local environment.

That's not right Peter,

I had bought the software along with my device with nokia's update promises. It is not like Google that we use free and accept the adds.

It looks like the acceptance of slavery is still in our blood.

Its time to stand up to our feet and realize that we own the right for expression, choose and reject

If Nokia is running an add in an update software in my ... I repeat 'my' device which I've purchased with 'my on money' then Nokia breaches the contract running an add in my system with out my concent and and approval.

Nokia reps in the above posts have clearly mentioned that this not their own app. Why should I accept if, as they say, an unknown third party software company is trying to throw their stuff in my device at my cost, privacy and efforts? That is a crime. It is against the freedom of customers. We have the right to choose. Why should I accept anything that is irritating with out my will?

I have not signed any contract with Nokia that I would run any adds on my cost (battery charge). If nokia is stealing my battery charge for running their adds to make their money without my concent and approval in my private device, then, that is a crime. Is is illegal.

We shall all fight for our rights to get a clean Map App that we deserve.

Thank you for reading

Moderator joined from <a href="/apps/ovi-maps-for-mobile-v3-08">Nokia Maps v3.08 with Weather</a>/<a href="/apps/ovi-maps-for-mobile-v3-08/suggestion">Suggestions</a>/<a href="/apps/ovi-maps-for-mobile-v3-08/suggestion/group/general-maps-v3-08-feedback">General Maps v3.08 feedback</a>/Remove advertisement please

Please remove the advertisement.

I would rather pay, then to wait first for the ad to load, then for the weather forecast.

At least first the weather should load, and then the advertisement.

Interesting how all-or-nothing seems to be the reasoning of some people.
Considering that the Weather portion of the "Nokia Maps v3.08 with Weather" is an add-in and is not actually part of the mapping application, it does not even display weather information or imaging on the map, I would like to see Nokia separate the Weather app from the mapping app.
This would satisfy everyone in this group.
Those who wish an advertisement-supported weather application can select and download that program.
People who want an application for mapping, and seek upgrades to the included product that was bundled with their phone can download the upgrade to Nokia Maps.
I suspect the reason Weather was added to Nokia Maps was an attempt to "improve" the package without actually doing anything remarkable to the mapping application it's self.
The inclusion of advertisements was probably a quick-route to a source of weather data and Nokia considered it to be a non-issue.
Taking these assumptions into account, I actually did what some others here have suggested... I deleted the Weather application.
I also removed the 3.08 update and returned to using the paid-for, bundled version of Nokia Maps (v3.06).
As a side note, I'm using a free weather site for mobile devices as a "replacement" for Nokia's Weather app. It's completely "free" in that the data is gathered by the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration. and published by the National Weather Service. Before you start banging the "That's not free either" gong, yes I know I pay for it through my taxes... but there's no advertisements :)

Hi hakapes,

As soon as as the weather app gets your position, both weather and ad data is loaded from the server. It seems that in your case the ad data is coming back faster than the weather data.

Olli Mahlamäki

@PaterAnt:
What you are displaying is exactly the dumbed down PC talk & attitude that seems to be the norm in today's western society (mainly). Any display of resistance or non-conformance is abhorred and to be treated by instant ridicule and shunning. Sounds familiar?

Unfortunately I don't subscribe to that attitude or behaviour in any facet of my life. I grew up in a country where just staying ALIVE was an achievement. I learnt very quickly to stand up for myself. I won't apologise for not subscribing to something that I find demeaning.

I paid extremely good money for a sim-free unbranded Nokia product (N8). In fact I have been buying Nokia since the 2110. Part of the "deal" with the N8 was free maps. It wasn't mentioned anywhere that adverts would be part of the deal. Why should I now accept this?

Having said this, I fully understand (probably better than most, because of the work I do) about the costs of R&D. Nokia is a multinational company that spends millions if not billions in R&D.
If the situation is that Nokia can no longer afford to furnish maps without some form of "payment" (i.e: adverts) no problem. Economic realities affect us all, and Nokia is not immune.
To get past this, Nokia have several options-
- stop selling phones with maps
- make maps a fully paid for service
- sell phones with a barebones map system and no (or very limited) updates
- as above, but offering a'premium' update service for which you pay. It could even be a structured services with different modules (i.e Weather or live Traffic) costing different amounts.

At the end of the day, it must be up to the end-user to determine whether he/she wants the 'bells & whistles' or just the plain package. By its very nature a navigation system is pretty useless without updates, so you can easily draw your own conclusions on whether people will take the 'plain package'....

Nokia cannot take a unilateral decision and simply shove adverts down your throat. Apart from the fact that adverts by their very nature generate data traffic, most of the adverts are crap. Be honest - how many adverts have you REALLY taken up? Real life statistics say that if you achieve a 3-5% response, you're doing exceptionally well.

As I said in an earlier post, the day that Nokia take away my choice and start deciding what is good for me, I take my hard earned cash and walk away without a second thought. I'm fairly confident that the majority of users think the same as me.

A company that has been (and is) haemorrhaging customers hand over fist for the last 8 or 9 straight quarters cannot afford to make stupid mistakes or PR faux-pas.

Christ, where do you start,
If you dislike the adds that much revert back to 3.06, after all it uses the same maps and provides the same navigation features so you are getting exactly what you paid for, including updates

3.08 is an experimental Beta if the adverts are that important to you don't use it

As for the payment, Nokia long ago decided that Providing the maps to everybody with a small (15-20 eur) surcharge on the cost of the handset would generate more revenue than charging 100eur + for the navigation features and having a few people buy it

Now they appear to be trialling an add system in a subsidiary part of this application

Now everyone agrees that adds on the navigation part is a no no,

but from this thread, sponsored poi's on the mapping part of the app may be of interest, provided they are an optional addition

And is a small banner on the weather app really an issue,
If it were advertising random junk or adult services it would be, however if it were providing location based content I don't see the issue,
It is after all a very small banner that can be ignored, and it's in an unimportant side app that if you feel that strongly about you don't have to use

We do not stop playing because we grow old
We grow old because we stop playing

Sad that some people seem to get so upset and so molto verboso over something so trivial...

Moderator joined from <a href="/apps/ovi-maps-for-mobile-v3-08">Nokia Maps v3.08 with Weather</a>/<a href="/apps/ovi-maps-for-mobile-v3-08/discussion">Discussion</a>/Ads in Weather

Advertisements in a compulsory Nokia app (no way to remove it) are unacceptable.